Avenging Angels/BP snub nose revolvers

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JohnnyCremains

JohnnyCremains

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Someone posted a thread a while back on black powder cap and ball revolvers. Its too old to reply to so I thought I'd start another one. Maybe I've already done this...not sure. But I really like these things and would like to get ideas on other types of revolvers you folks have cut down.

I've made quite a few of these things so far.

Dance:

IMG_5180_zpsd41bc8b8.jpg

Walker and an 1862 police

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'51 Navies

IMG_2613.jpg

IMG_3478.jpg

'60 Army

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First model Dragoon

IMG_5369_zps41630c16.gif
 
Very nice work. How are you doing the radius at the muzzle? Miserable thing to chuck in a lathe, and handwork is rarely as well done.


Willie

.
 
Willie, it's all done by hand. I crown the muzzle with a Brownells 45 degree hand crowning tool. Everything else is done by eye. Hacksaw, files and sandpaper.
 
Very cool! Id like to have one of the 1860's myself... But, how do they shoot? Do they loose much power being so short? How about accuracy?

I was thinking along the lines of having a 60 with different barrels... One like this, and another long one plus a shoulder stock, to have a whole "system" on one platform. Do you do these with the original barrels or do you buy extra ones just for this?

Great work BTW!
 
I want to set up a brace of Colt Armys like this for CCW purposes.

12 rounds of .44 round ball is nothing to sneeze at!
 
Stormson said:
I was thinking along the lines of having a 60 with different barrels... One like this, and another long one plus a shoulder stock, to have a whole "system" on one platform. Do you do these with the original barrels or do you buy extra ones just for this?
Click to expand...

I am in the process of doing this myself. VTI carries the barrels of various lengths although to have a 12" one you'll have to use an 1851 .44 barrel.
 
Im pretty new to BP... Used to shoot my buddies '51 brasser back in the day, but just recently got back into it. I only have the remmi 5.5" and my experience with colts was more years ago then I care to think about LOL...

Does the 51 barrel assembly fit readily on the 60 frame? A 12" would be pretty perfect for the carbine part of the system.

Also, to JohnnyCremains, do you ever contract to do these barrels for others? If so, how much would something like this cost?
 
The only ones of these I have actually fired is the Walker and the 1862 Police. It was reasonably accurate at 7 yards, but obviously I'm not really out for accuracy with these. Its more a conversation piece. The first two I ever made were the 1860 and 1851 for a guy that asked me if I would do it. He has shot them and says they are a real hoot to fire.
I have done a few for a few other people and the rest I just do up to sell on Gunbroker. The Walker sold for $795 and the Dragoon sold for $599. I think the 1862 Police sold for $575. So if I can get the guns cheap enough I can usually make a little money on them.
They are very time consuming so my charge is not cheap. $325 if you just want the barrel cut, sight install and the gun artificially aged (proofmarks removed, I HATE proofmarks). $350 if you want the butt rounded slightly as well.
Here's a video of the Walker being fired with 50 grains of FFFG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8oOi3Phbsc
 
For really short jobs like this and given the way the Colt style barrels come off the gun cutting and crowning in a lathe would be dead nutz simple.

I'd just turn up a snug fitting brass mandrel and drill and tap the end. Into that I'd put a screw and washer with a short section of rubber or plastic tubing. Then slip the barrel on over the stub mandrel and reach in and tighten the screw to swell the rubber out and firmly grip the bore. This would easily hold the barrel neatly and accurately for the crowning cuts and finishing.

It won't be me showing you how to do this with pictures though. Our firearms laws up here make cutting a barrel to make one of these belly guns a prohibited act.
 
BC, you can't even cut muzzle loaders in Canada? The federal gov't doesn't even consider them real firearms here.
 
For cap fired long guns they are considered "non restricted" unless they are genuine antiques made prior to 1894... or is it 1898? Something like that.

And flintlock long guns are in the same boat as with you. We don't need to have a firearms license to own a flintlock even if it's a new reproduction.

But ALL handguns other than proper antiques are controlled as "restricted firearms". And if the barrels are cut to be shorter than 4.2 inches then we've created a prohibited device under our firearms laws. It doesn't matter if it's a black powder cap and ball revolver or a Ruger GP100 or a 1911.

Not sure about making such a gun from an actual antique. But they cost dearly enough that I'm not going to try one and see how much it affects the price any time soon.
 
Sweet guns - like to have a pair of 1862 Police's made like this some day with 1865 Navy cylinders as extra's
 
JohnnyCremains said:
The only ones of these I have actually fired is the Walker and the 1862 Police. It was reasonably accurate at 7 yards, but obviously I'm not really out for accuracy with these. Its more a conversation piece. The first two I ever made were the 1860 and 1851 for a guy that asked me if I would do it. He has shot them and says they are a real hoot to fire.
I have done a few for a few other people and the rest I just do up to sell on Gunbroker. The Walker sold for $795 and the Dragoon sold for $599. I think the 1862 Police sold for $575. So if I can get the guns cheap enough I can usually make a little money on them.
They are very time consuming so my charge is not cheap. $325 if you just want the barrel cut, sight install and the gun artificially aged (proofmarks removed, I HATE proofmarks). $350 if you want the butt rounded slightly as well.
Here's a video of the Walker being fired with 50 grains of FFFG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8oOi3Phbsc
Click to expand...
LOL Yup... I saw that video of the fire breathing dragon! :)

You sure do pretty work... Worth every penny Id say. Being a poor boy... LOL And having a woman who frowns on some of my buying habits already... Well.. One can dream I suppose :)
 
I really like the looks of those, but wonder about the powder efficiency. I've read somewhere they figured a .44 cal needed about 3.5" of barrel to fully burn the powder charge, of which I don't recall (full load I'd guess). I don't use full loads, but i don't use powder puff loads either (30 grns in my .44 cal '58 and 35 grns in my ROA).
 
You don't run into original "Avenging Angels" too often, but I do see them come up at auctions from time to time. So I doubt if it was all that uncommon for someone back in the day to cut one down as a hideout gun. If I lived back in the day when cartridge revolvers first came out and I upgraded to a new Smith, Colt or Merwin Hulbert, I think rather than retire my old 1860 army or 1851 Navy I would have cut the barrel off and used it for a back up gun.
 
rodwha said:
I really like the looks of those, but wonder about the powder efficiency. I've read somewhere they figured a .44 cal needed about 3.5" of barrel to fully burn the powder charge, of which I don't recall (full load I'd guess). I don't use full loads, but i don't use powder puff loads either (30 grns in my .44 cal '58 and 35 grns in my ROA).
Click to expand...
I cut one of my 5 1/2" pietas down to 2" and with 25 grains of 3F it popped like a 22 and the balls went .451" into a sand pile at 20'. I picked them up to melt into new ones. I haven't gotten around to trying 35 grains yet.
 
The Walker with 50 grains of black powder did a little more than pop like a .22
No idea what the muzzle velocity was but I wouldn't want to be standing in front of it

Walkerflash.jpg
 
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