Bear Creek Arsenal - Save Your Purchase Receipt

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BSA1

BSA1

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West of the Big Muddy, East of the Rockies and Nor
I learned a expensive lesson today with Bear Creek Arsenal.

I brought a new BCA Stripped Upper sometime back (I think last year) with plans to have it Ceracoated. Well time flies and other projects getting in the way I finally got around to building or rather tried to build it last month. When I checked the fit of the BCA Upper to the Lower the Takedown and Pivot Pin holes didn’t quite match up. I had to use a rubber tip hammer to seat the pins all the way through. So on February 14th I sent the upper back to BCA asking them to check it and exchange with another one. Well I after two weeks I sent them a email asking about it. Vanessa replied wanting to know who I brought it from and proof of purchase. I told her I was‘t sure who I brought it from and if I still had the receipt as I order a lot of parts.

She never replied back and a second email I sent earlier this week also went unanswered so I called them today. I spoke to Vanessa and April who both told me they refuse to look at the upper unless I provided written proof of purchase. Long phone conversation short is BCA absolutely will not honor their warranty without written proof of purchase so I am just out of luck. In fact they did not offer to return it to return it back to me until I asked them too.

i told April I was considering buying one of their barrels but I felt their warranty on it would be worthless if the barrel did not perform as advertised and I didn’t have a receipt. April backtracked and assured me they would honor the warranty because now they will have me in their computer.

Anyway I am stuck with a out of spec Upper Receiver that I will not sell to someone else. The good news there are other reputable companies that make good uppers (just got a Stag Arms that fits and am going to use instead) and I will not risk buying anything else from Beautiful Creek Arsenal.

i told April that I was going to post this on discussion forums and she told me to be sure to say that their warranty policy requiring proof of purchase is clearly posted on their website. So April I did as you asked.
 
Well the thing is I don’t recall. I have brought AR parts from Brownells,
Delta Team Tactical, Palmetto State Armory, Anderson, Primary Arms, several Local Gun Stores, Bravo, JSE Surplus, AIM Surplus and probably a couple other places.

The thing is why does it matter? The Upper is in brand new unblemished condition and April told me they can identify it as one of theirs by the way it is made and certain marks on it. If it was a used part then they certainly have a reason to be suspicious.

Anderson recently exchanged a out of spec upper without me having to provide a receipt without any questions asked.

Anyway I am not calling for a boycott. It is a fyi message about BCA warranty policy and refusing to correct a defective item that they know is theirs. Buyers better organized than me probably will not have trouble saving their receipt.

Since I cannot use the Upper and I will not screw someone by reselling it I am seriously thinking about attaching to a wood base and sending it to Eugene Moore as a gift for building a junk upper. I need to think of a witty message to put on it.

As always Buyer Beware.
 
Some oddities.
In general, I support needing a rcpt for warranty.... in general.

I *get* them being twitchy about dealing with it without a rcpt except for this; She stated to you that she knew it was theirs and you state it is completely unused.

That's a bit weird.... generally speaking.



I know I had this issue as a manufacturer though I'm not saying it is their issue.

We had a couple-few warranty returns that puzzled me. We were running at a low single digit percentage of valid warranty claims and getting several in a month that should NEVER have left the shop vexed me.

Anyhow, I came into the shop one morning along about 2-3 AM to drop some notes and materials off for the boys as I was going to head out of town for a few days.

Don't you know there were a half dozen bozos in the shop!

One of our part-timers had copied a key and copped the security code and he, a couple of losers and members of our shooting-team were having a grand old time. Most importantly, they had their tailgates open.

Turns out these jerks were pilfering my cast-off rack in the back and building uppers to sell at gun shows as well as stealing good parts and uppers.

Mystery solved! I owed a few serious apologies for screaming at the shop about building and shipping without test firing in general and crap parts in particular.

Todd.
 
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ApacheCoTodd said:
Some oddities.
In general, I support needing a rcpt for warranty.... in general.

I *get* them being twitchy about dealing with it without a rcpt except for this; She stated to you that she knew it was theirs and you state it is completely unused.

That's a bit weird.... generally speaking.



I know I had this issue as a manufacturer though I'm not saying it is their issue.

We had a couple-few warranty returns that puzzled me. We were running at a low single digit percentage of valid warranty claims and getting several in a month that should NEVER have left the shop vexed me.

Anyhow, I came into the shop one morning along about 2-3 AM to drop some notes and materials off for the boys as I was going to head out of town for a few days.

Don't you know there were a half dozen bozos in the shop!

One of our part-timers had copied a key and copped the security code and he, a couple of losers and members of our shooting-team were having a grand old time. Most importantly, they had their tailgates open.

Turns out these jerks were pilfering my cast-off rack in the back and building uppers to sell at gun shows as well as stealing good parts and uppers.

Mystery solved! I owed a few serious apologies for screaming at the shop about building and shipping without test firing in general and crap parts in particular.

Todd.
Click to expand...
Oh, HELL NO!
Goes to show, good employees are truly hard to find.
I've been out of the manufacturing field for a long time, but I when I was in it, every process was expected to implement total quality control.
Sounds like you need a 3lb hammer at every station, if something doesn't pass control, BANG that thing.
I might be more ticked than you are at said employees, I don't know..
 
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I figure everything happens for a reason. I just checked their website and they do not have standard charging stripped uppers listed so they may not be able to exchange it even if I have my receipt. The AR manufacturing field is pretty crowded and with gun sales in general in a slump they may likely be in financial difficulty. They sure have a bad reputation for quality of their parts that I was not aware of.

Anyway the money they saved by refusing to honor their warranty may be more useful for helping to pay a employees wages. Fortunately it isn’t breaking my bank by having to buy another upper and actually is going to save me a lot of grief if I was to buy one of their barrels that I was planning on.

I’m sure I will eventually find my receipt for the upper but after reading about the poor quality of their parts it really will not be worth the trouble to try to deal with them again. Sufficient for me to tell everyone to save your receipts if you buy anything from Bear Creek Arsenal.
 
I don't think they have any problems making money, they sell a ton of stuff. They also make a lot of barrels for other companies, even for a few of the high end ar companies. I don't hear much had about them and I've seen my share of them, for the money there great. Plus have a 1 moa guaranty on all barrels over 14''.
 
troy fairweather said:
I don't think they have any problems making money, they sell a ton of stuff. They also make a lot of barrels for other companies, even for a few of the high end ar companies.
Click to expand...

Who are the other companies they make products for? I don’t want to buy anymore of the products.

Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

“troy fairweather said:
Plus have a 1 moa guaranty on all barrels over 14''.
Click to expand...

Without your written receipt their 1 moa guarantee is worthless. April wanted me to be sure that I mention they require a written receipt with all returns and warranty claims.
 
BSA1,
Thank you for posting this. This is good to know. I have only bought one thing made by BCA. That was a barrel that I am happy with, but if and when I do put together another AR I will keep this in mind.

Come to think of it, I do not have the barrel receipt any longer.
 
My main problem is I buy a lot of gun stuff and as a true American male my mancave is a bit cluttered. I am a sucker for good sales so some stuff I buy I may not use for a couple years. I recently finished getting all the parts for AR build #5 and have boxes of parts for builds 6, 7 and 8. I don’t even know what 6, 7 and 8 are going to be yet. I ordered a handguard which when it arrives means I will have a handguard with no barrel to match it too. To quote my S-I-L “You have a lot of s***.”

My point is that Bear Creek Arsenal has a rigid return policy so be better organized than I am and put your receipts where you can find them.
 
Pat Riot said:
BSA1,
Thank you for posting this. This is good to know. I have only bought one thing made by BCA. That was a barrel that I am happy with, but if and when I do put together another AR I will keep this in mind.

Come to think of it, I do not have the barrel receipt any longer.
Click to expand...
.

Which means their 1” moa guarantee is worthless.
 
All things considered I have a bit of a problem with a company that knowingly sells blemished parts unless they are clearly marked as such. By doing that ,they are participating in fraud (my opinion). Then there is the concept of standing behind what you make. That would appear to apply both in selling unmarked blemished parts, and in refusing to replace a bad item that you are aware that you made. Receipt or no receipt.
It means not only a need to keep a receipt, but to verify with sellers the source of their manufacturer. And finally , it means to me I would not purchase an item made by BCA . All due respect to both Vanessa and April , as well as to BCA, which means NONE .
 
mnrivrat said:
All things considered I have a bit of a problem with a company that knowingly sells blemished parts unless they are clearly marked as such. By doing that ,they are participating in fraud (my opinion). Then there is the concept of standing behind what you make. That would appear to apply both in selling unmarked blemished parts, and in refusing to replace a bad item that you are aware that you made. Receipt or no receipt.
It means not only a need to keep a receipt, but to verify with sellers the source of their manufacturer. And finally , it means to me I would not purchase an item made by BCA . All due respect to both Vanessa and April , as well as to BCA, which means NONE .
Click to expand...
I buy a good bit of blemished stuff and the only time it's ever marked is on packaging, and/or the sales receipt.

I believe BSA has a valid complaint, and posted a very neutral response on the forums as he said he would. Buyers should take that into consideration.
That said, I'd be curious as to why they require a written copy of the sales receipt, and probably would have asked. They may have a good reason, such as people buying a BLEM for cheap then returning it as a full cost purchase.
Now a FUNCTIONAL issue is not usually considered a blemish, which is why I feel BSA should receive service even if he doesn't have a receipt.

I've bought 3 uppers, (2 complete and one upper/bolt combo) and had no issues. I've never had to deal with customer service so have no input there. I will continue to purchase stuff from BCA, but as suggested, will keep my receipts.
 
As noted by a previous poster BCA sells its blemished parts, and the parts are being resold without noting blemish's.
"You still did not say were you got it from, I think there in the right saying they need proof of purchase. They make stuff for 3rd partys one place even buys all there blems and sells them as normal parts."
So that would indicate that BCA is aware of their blemished parts are being sold as "normal" parts. Does that relieve them from responsibility ? Not in my playbook it doesn't. If the parts were marketed as blemished and you choose to buy them that way ,then you take your chances. Your informed choice. Tell me have you ever sold a gun that you put together using blemished parts ? If so ,did you notify the buyer of this ? If not I wonder if they would be pleased with you for not informing them. I guess there is no moral compass when it comes to making a buck. And if your answer is I would tell the buyer, or I don't sell the product I build with blemished parts, then why do you think it is OK for them (BCA) to do so ?
 
Well I’m not sure why the complaint is valid. If you buy from them, then you’re in their computer system. If you don’t buy from them, and there’s no receipt, then you could have gotten it anywhere and in any condition. I don’t buy BCA products from anyone but BCA. I don’t buy PSA products from anyone but PSA. I’m also 100% positive that BCA covers their parts to the ORIGINAL PURCHASER. And without a proof of purchase, you cannot prove that you are the original owner. See section B.... Having proven the point, I’m still sorry you had a bad experience. EBAF955A-492C-4CC0-8162-B9B7F199FEC7.jpeg
 
I recognize that a problem exists with what I would call their business practices and their warrantee program. They have decided to do both wholesale and retail of their products. Particularly since they also do wholesale of their blemished products without marking the blemished products. It is pretty hard to warranty products not sold directly by them to the retail consumer without the receipt from them.
They apparently have methods to ID their products and that still means a loss to the retail consumer of what they have badly manufactured.
Good for them, as it leaves them clear of responsibility to the retail customer ,by knowingly selling blemished parts wholesale to a distributor. Bad for the retail customer in that there is no recourse to them from the manufacturer unless you buy from them at I would guess full retail price. I understand what they do and why. I just don't think it is a practice I want a part of. So you not only need to make sure you keep your receipts, but you need who is going to stand behind the product your buying. Or in other words if you do not buy direct from them ( the manufacturer) you void their warrantee. Live and learn. Buy our good production from us, Buy are not so good product from someone else where we dump our flaws.
 
If I buy anything from BCA or PSA I buy it direct from them, when I go to their web sites I log into my account and everything I've ever bought is listed, makes proof of purchase easy. I've read enough warnings on the gun forums about out of spec parts that I examine any purchases very closely and pay with a credit card just in case. That said, I'm very satisfied with everything I've bought from BCA. I've e-mailed them twice with questions and received e-mails back promptly. Obviously ymmv.
 
This conversation has turned to buying blem products even though the Upper has no visible flaws to my unaided eye and it was not advertised or sold to me as a blemished upper receiver.

It is important to recognize what a blem upper is. It is a item that has cosmetic flaws such as from forging, machine marks, it’s color and/or finish. Unless the seller states otherwise it will function properly when installed.

There is a legal concept known as “Implied Warranty of
Merchantability.” It essentially guarantees though implication that a product will reasonably conform to the buyer’s standards and that the product is suitable for sale. In other words, unless the seller of the product explicitly states otherwise by using a phrase such as “as is” or “defective” in describing the product, the buyer has the reasonable right to expect that the item he is buying will conform to his basic expectations and will have no flaws that are not immediately discernible or part of the nature of the item.

My expectation is when I buy a Upper Receiver it will conform to manufacturing standards and will fit a Lower Receiver that is also made to manufacturers standards.

For example I have purchased a Stag Arms stripped upper receiver that was advertised as a “blem.” When I received it it does indeed have a blemished spot in the finish on the side of the upper. When I checked it’s fit on the lower I am using it fits and functions perfectly. This upper meets both of my expectations. One the finish is less than perfect and two it meets manufacturing standards by fitting and functioning in the lower perfectly.

If the upper did not fit my lower(s) (I would try it in several as I did with the BCA) I would demand a replacement since it does not meet my expectation that it will function properly. It is important to know that a written warranty is not needed. Ruger does not offer a written warranty but still repairs and replaces their firearms without charge to the owner.

There is no deception on my part with this BCA Upper. A simple series of measurements will determine conclusively whether it was manufactured to industry standards. It really is just that simple.
 
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Webster: Blemish
I think the truth is a blemish can be either cosmetic, or a flaw which can effect function. My point has been that if a part is blemished it should be marked as such and identified as to whether the blemish is cosmetic or a flaw that could effect function (without having to guess which). To not ID even the fact that it is a blemished part is in my opinion an attempt to defraud the buyer. If I recall correctly S&W way back in the 19th century used to mark and sell what they called seconds. Making no secret of blemishes. Perhaps I expect to much out of todays businesses ? There does however seem to be parts that one would properly ID as Blemished that have either cosmetic OR functional flaws. That is about all the explanation I can attribute to my distain for selling parts with flaws without marking them in a manner that allows a buyer to know that he/she is getting a less than good to all specifications product. With that said I will let each decide what satisfies them, and will part with no further comment regarding this subject.
 
Frankly, I would have a great deal of concern over dealing with any company that is unwilling to replace an out-of-spec component that shows no signs of use.

It implies that they would not accept responsibility for damage or injury caused by the failure of a component... unless you kept all recipts.
 
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