Best AK-47 that isn't a Saiga...

[Ranger30-06]

The only ones that pretty much have a universal "stay away" vibe are the Century AK's.

Things to look for:

• A loose mag well. A little wiggle is okay, but no more than a millimeter. This can cause feeding problems.
• Work the bolt a couple times. It doesn't really need to be smooth (that will happen when you shoot it), but I would run it anyway just so you can get a feel that nothing is wrong.
• Look at the finish. It will tell you how much care they put into the insides.
• The Russian ones are the best, followed by the Bulgarian ones. Some people love the Chinese ones, but Chinese steel is softer than anyone else's because they recycle the crap out of it. This may or may not be a bad thing, but I sure wouldn't be betting my life on one...

 

[1fromtheparapet]

Ok thanks much. New toy on the horizon. Getting a bit itchy...

 

[ifit]

ranger, dont know abot the russians being the "best". if it is i did not get the memo. cause all i have are chinese/romanian/vepr, they are not the "best" but work like any ak should. as a matter of fact dont even have a saiga or arsenal, skipped those. having a couple of chines firearms and your saying the metal is softer, have you done any metallurgy tests to confirm this? i had a total of 6 chinese firearms, and never even notice such a thing.

 

[Ranger30-06]

ranger, dont know abot the russians being the "best". if it is i did not get the memo. cause all i have are chinese/romanian/vepr, they are not the "best" but work like any ak should. as a matter of fact dont even have a saiga or arsenal, skipped those. having a couple of chines firearms and your saying the metal is softer, have you done any metallurgy tests to confirm this? i had a total of 6 chinese firearms, and never even notice such a thing.

Well considering the fact that the Russians created the AK family, I'm pretty sure they know how to make it the best.

As for the steel, Russian steel is noticeably harder than Chinese, and even American. The Chinese recycle their steel to the point that it loses its tensile strength, and when you compare Chinese steel to other steel such as Russian or American steel, it's easily noticeable. Ever notice why cheap Chinese drill bits won't cut through new American steel? Because they're too soft. On the contrary, I had to buy an $80 set of top of the line drill bits to drill through the steel on my Saiga (Russian steel) when I was converting it.

Now despite all of this, I don't think this necessarily hurts the reliability of the Chinese AK's, but I do think it may have an effect on the long term durability of the weapon. You also have to remember, the Russians overkill everything. Seriously, anything made by a Russian is probably twice as tough as it needs to be. Key: Mosin's, Hind helicopters, their buildings, even their tools!

 

[armysniper]

Vector Ak's in my opinion are premium. The fit and finish of them are among if not the best on the market. I currently own the underfolder model. I would not mind having a full stock model in the future.

 

[Kymasabe]

Gonna throw my 2 cents worth in here. I've converted lots of Saiga's. First one was the scariest, had to keep going back to the video to make sure I got it right. When it was done, I thought "that was it? That was easy". Now, in about three hours and some basic hand tools, I can have one done. I order all my conversion parts from Dinzags site or from Carolina Shooters Supply.
That way you end up with a new gun, new barrel, not monkey'd around with, not surplus/used parts, and you know your gun inside and out.

As far as other guns I've owned and "best" AK. Some guys love Arsenals or Krebs or whatever. Too expensive in my book. I had a Bulgarian gun built by Armory USA in TExas, awesome gun, was $500 new, out the door. If I could find one, I'd buy it again. Right now, I'm a big fanof the InterOrdnance AK that I have. New US receiver and barrel and has proven to be very accurate for an AK and very reliable. I'm very happy with this one and don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon. Good news is you can buy one right now as they still make them.

 

[ifit]

30-06, basically talkin aks not helicopters drill bits and such. until such time anybody ever decides to cut up their "best" ak47 and chinese aks to actually do a metallurgy tests, i think of them all the same, sorry

 

[JustinJ]

I don't have it in front of me but in an article i read with Krebs he said something to the effect that the Bulgarian and Russian are the best quality. At home conversions are fun and all but unless you have the tools to properly install the rivets i say go with an Arsenal if you want the best AK possible.

 

[M&M LLC]

Hey guys, just a heads up....we have been slammed with orders in the last month and we are doing our very best to keep up with the demand since SHOT SHOW. Shipments to our distruibutors are enroute.

However, if you have any difficultly locating one of our rifles, please give us a call or PM me, (I'll send you my contact info) and I will do my very best to get you in touch with a distributor that has them in inventory.

Tim

 

[Scott Farkus]

Can somebody explain to an AK noob exactly what is meant when y'all talk about "converting" these things? I've tried to research it but I'm very confused. Thanks!

 

[Ranger30-06]

Scott, converting a Saiga AK is the process of drilling out the Rivets and removing the old trigger system and moving it forward and replacing the parts with new ones. (Specifically the trigger/sear and trigger guard). It also adds a pistol grip to the rifle and puts the balance of the rifle back to how it originally should be.

For example: Here is a stock Saiga as you would pick it up from the store:

After conversion, it would look like this:

*Stock coloring and Fire/Safe coloring are extra steps!*
Notice how the trigger is moved closer to the magazine release and such? It also shortens the gun by ~4" and thus a LOT more handy. There are usually kits that you buy ranging from $130+ and they include everything you need parts wise, as well as countless Youtube videos on how to do the conversion. Tool wise, you just need a drill with some *very* good bits, and a file. It took me about 3 hours, which seems to be the average time that it takes to convert.

 

[Girodin]

The only ones that pretty much have a universal "stay away" vibe are the Century AK's (sic).

I would change that in a couple ways. Personally I would never buy an IO inc. AK. More to the point though, I would change your statement to say "century assembled AKs. The Draco pistol for example is a century AK but is simply imported by them. I also don't think century AKs deserve a universal stay away from advisory. Rather they probably should be inspected for certain issues. Barring those they tend to be servicable for things AKs are typically intended for.

Can somebody explain to an AK noob exactly what is meant when y'all talk about "converting" these things? I've tried to research it but I'm very confused. Thanks!

Converting in reference to saigas is short hand for "pistol grip conversion." What is being refered to is changing the weapon from the "sporter" configuration to a pistol grip configuration. This involves replacing the funky wishbone FCG linkage with a standard semi auto AK fire control group, which moves the trigger forward to the normal location.

People may also make other modifications as part of a "conversion" such as replacing the hand guards, changing gas and/or sight blocks, threading the barrel, etc.

If you search You tube for saiga conversion there are videos of the process.

Dollar for dollar a converted saiga will tend to be the most functional gun. This is because it starts with quality base parts and you can choose the parts and build it from the ground up to best suit your individual needs. If one wants to clone the look of a particular AK variant then Arsenals may be the better buy. I personally still wouldn't buy from that company though.

At $300 saigas are hard to beat for AKs. The draco used to be a real good buy, for those who could SBR it, back when you could have one in hand for $350 now that one would be hard pressed to get one in hand for less than about $470 it is not as good of a value but still a better value than most other SBR aks.

 

[JustinJ]

I also don't think century AKs deserve a universal stay away from advisory. Rather they probably should be inspected for certain issues.

Having to inspect a product for certain issues seems to be an indicator one should stay away from it.

Dracos may not be made by Century but i'm not that impressed anyways. I had to enlarge the mag well on mine to get ANY ak mags to fit. On top of that they don't exactly scream "quality" when handled.

 

[Girodin]

Having to inspect a product for certain issues seems to be an indicator one should stay away from it.

Then one should stay away from saiga too. I got one of those with canted sights (bought sight unseen). I've also seen arsenals with canted sights and finish problems. Given the choice I wouldn't buy any gun without knowing what issues they are prone to and looking it over for them. There are a lot of guns I would not buy sight unseen. That is very different from saying that I would per se not own them.

I would agree that on a whole romanian AKs tend to not be as nice in terms of fit and finish as the russian guns I've encountered. FWIW you are the only person I have ever even read about having that issue with a Draco. I've had a couple and like all makes of AKs they are built with lose tolerances and you get variations in them. I had one the dust cover fit rather tightly and I had to bend it to make it go on and off normally. I had the same issue with of my saigas.

I'm yet to handle any AK that really screams quality, arsenals and the like included. Aks are what they are. Stamped lose rough and tumble guns. Of course there is a spectrum of fit and finish but barring serious functional issues they all go bang and offer combat accuracy at ranges within the limitations of the cartridges they fire.

 

[wildchild2010]

Yugo M70B1 AK-47 are they any good, they use to be for sale every where at one time.

 

[JustinJ]

Then one should stay away from saiga too. I got one of those with canted sights (bought sight unseen). I've also seen arsenals with canted sights and finish problems. Given the choice I wouldn't buy any gun without knowing what issues they are prone to and looking it over for them. There are a lot of guns I would not buy sight unseen. That is very different from saying that I would per se not own them.

Of course any product can potentially have a few defective samples leave the factory. That is however different from a laundry list of common problems. Also, i've seen two century AKs trigger pins walk out after less than 100 rounds. I don't know if this was a fluke or a common problem with them but if it is i'm not sure one can identify this problem with a visual inspection.

Arsenals scream quality if you handle one right after a Century.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Does anyone have any experience with Interarms?

 

[Rob G]

The only ones that pretty much have a universal "stay away" vibe are the Century AK's.

I'm not sure I'd 100% agree on that. I've probably talked to an equal number of people who loved and hated Century AKs. My only real problems are the lack of a chrome lined barrel in certain models, which is really a personal preference, and the cheap furniture they tend to use. Mostly though I've heard that they're about as reliable and accurate as any other AK.

Yugo M70B1 AK-47 are they any good, they use to be for sale every where at one time.

If you can find an original Yugo M70B1 and not a clone then yes, they're awesome. If you're buying a cheap imitation (there are a lot out there) then no, not that awesome.

I'm yet to handle any AK that really screams quality

I'm a little confused by this statement. Do you mean you've never handled a well made one? Or do you mean quality as in "it's an overall simple design?"

 

[Scott Farkus]

Scott, converting a Saiga AK is the process of drilling out the Rivets and removing the old trigger system and moving it forward and replacing the parts with new ones. (Specifically the trigger/sear and trigger guard). It also adds a pistol grip to the rifle and puts the balance of the rifle back to how it originally should be.

For example: Here is a stock Saiga as you would pick it up from the store:

After conversion, it would look like this:

*Stock coloring and Fire/Safe coloring are extra steps!*
Notice how the trigger is moved closer to the magazine release and such? It also shortens the gun by ~4" and thus a LOT more handy. There are usually kits that you buy ranging from $130+ and they include everything you need parts wise, as well as countless Youtube videos on how to do the conversion. Tool wise, you just need a drill with some *very* good bits, and a file. It took me about 3 hours, which seems to be the average time that it takes to convert.

Ahhh... that makes sense. (your first picture isn't working but I found an example on line).

If you don't mind another noob question, is there a way to convert a Saiga to a wooden stock and forends, so that it looks more like the WASR's? I did some googling but nothing seems to be turning up.

Also, what do people mean when they talk about conversion in the context of 922r? I know it has something to do with BATF compliance but I don't understand who is supposed to do this (the dealer or the buyer?) and when it needs to be done.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Ahhh... that makes sense. (your first picture isn't working but I found an example on line).

If you don't mind another noob question, is there a way to convert a Saiga to a wooden stock and forends, so that it looks more like the WASR's? I did some googling but nothing seems to be turning up.

Also, what do people mean when they talk about conversion in the context of 922r? I know it has something to do with BATF compliance but I don't understand who is supposed to do this (the dealer or the buyer?) and when it needs to be done.

For the stock and the grip, you can put normal wood AK furniture on. The forend however is much different, but I believe there is an adapter that allows the use of normal AK forends.

As for 922r, you are responsible for the compliance. If you want the gun any other way than stock or want to use any American mags, you must switch out so many parts to be American parts. This calculator will tell you how many parts need to be changed out to be legal. 922r Calculator Pretty much, stock it ok. Otherwise, you need to switch out 5 foreign parts with US made parts, as well as using a US made pistol grip. Take a look at the link I gave you; It's pretty straightforward to use. Keep in mind too, that the magazine counts as 3 parts. Hope this helps!

 

[RhodesianRLI]

Well considering the fact that the Russians created the AK family, I'm pretty sure they know how to make it the best.

As for the steel, Russian steel is noticeably harder than Chinese, and even American. The Chinese recycle their steel to the point that it loses its tensile strength, and when you compare Chinese steel to other steel such as Russian or American steel, it's easily noticeable. Ever notice why cheap Chinese drill bits won't cut through new American steel? Because they're too soft. On the contrary, I had to buy an $80 set of top of the line drill bits to drill through the steel on my Saiga (Russian steel) when I was converting it.

The Norinco 1911 slides were made out of extremely hard metal, much harder than US made 1911s or any 1911.

I cant speak for the steel quality of a Norinco AK, but I can say that Norinco AKs are very nice AKs

 

[Girodin]

Do you mean you've never handled a well made one? Or do you mean quality as in "it's an overall simple design?"

More to the latter. AKs are cheap stamped guns. None of them are that nice compared to a huge swath of guns out there. I love AKs and would have to stop and count to tell you how many of them I own. That said they are simple crude guns and that what makes them great.

The forend however is much different, but I believe there is an adapter that allows the use of normal AK forends.

You need a hand guard retainer, like any other AK. You can get bolt on ones that do not require pressing off the front sight. You also need a new gas tube.

you need to switch out 5 foreign parts with US made parts,

A saiga rifle has 14 countable parts. 922r and the regulations relating to it require that one have 10 or fewer foreign countable parts. That means one need only remove (and presumably replace) 4 countable parts provided no other countable foreign parts are added, say a pistol grip. Use a US FCG, US stock and US PG and you are there. I would not suggest relying on magazines for compliance for a number of reasons.

As for 922r, you are responsible for the compliance.

The law proscribes "assembling" certain configurations of weapons out of foreign parts. So the law applies to the person who does the illegal assembly. Before you believe that this means you can just buy a non compliant gun and be scott free, it is important to remember that there is an argument (and at various times the ATF has taken the this position) that putting the magazine in the gun counts as assembling. This is not settled law. It is anyone's guess how the ATF will decide to interpret the law at any given time. It is also anyone's guess how a court would rule on the matter. Personally I actually find that argument fairly compelling from a statutory construction stand point. The reason I say that is because magazines are countable parts (3 in fact) and they are designed to regularly be removed and inserted.

 

[Rob G]

As for 922r, you are responsible for the compliance. If you want the gun any other way than stock or want to use any American mags, you must switch out so many parts to be American parts.

Close, it's actually not using American mags that's the problem. It's using high capacity mags. Using American mags actually solves part of the problem since they count as at least two, and I think possibly three compliance parts.

If you don't mind another noob question, is there a way to convert a Saiga to a wooden stock and forends, so that it looks more like the WASR's? I did some googling but nothing seems to be turning up.

Yes, there's a retainer that has to be added to the rifle to hold a standard AK lower handguard but once it's on there you can install any standard size AK furniture you want. Poly, wood, whatever you'd like it should fit.

Also, what do people mean when they talk about conversion in the context of 922r? I know it has something to do with BATF compliance but I don't understand who is supposed to do this (the dealer or the buyer?) and when it needs to be done.

Basically unless you want to convert the weapon in to a standard AK format and use hi-cap mags then you don't need to worry about 922r. As for who does it, according to the BATFE it's whoever "assembles" the weapon. So actually it's the manufacturer, at least initially. However there's a letter floating around somewhere that somebody got from the BATFE clarifying the point in which the BATFE basically states that they consider "assembling" to be anything other than removing or replacing parts for cleaning or maintenance. So basically as far as they're concerned once the buyer starts swapping and/or modifying parts you're now "assembling" the weapon and must be 922r compliant. Of course I don't think anyone's ever been charged with violating it but it's easy enough to follow that I just go along with it personally.

[Edit] Girodin must have been posting at the same time I was. His comment about 922r is something I've also heard before and it does seem to have some merit.

 

[skipbo32]

what do ya'll think of the Tantal AK74s? i hear they are pretty solid AKs.

 

[Rob G]

what do ya'll think of the Tantal AK74s? i hear they are pretty solid AKs.

Depends on who assembled them. Tantals are basically just a Polish variation on the '74. If they're assembled right then they'll be as accurate and reliable as any other AK. If they're not, well then they won't be. I do like the style though.

Most Tantals out there at the moment are Century Arms guns and from what I understand they're a little hit or miss on quality but generally in good shape. If I was looking for a Tantal though I think I'd invest the extra time and money in to finding a kit and having someone build it for me.