Best Home Defense Ammo

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bigpea

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Hi All, i know everyone has a personal preference as to what ammo would be best to keep in their shotgun for HD. I have an 870 and currently keep 00 Buckshot in it, would smaller shot be wiser so to not destroy my home if anything were to ever happen in a life threatening self defense situation. I definitely know I don't want anyone suing me, the way things are now days I know that is a possibility. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

Thanks!

bigPEA
 
Welcome BigPea.

Have you tried to search for "best ammo"? This is the most commonly asked question next to what is the "best shotgun".

The short answer is that there is no such thing as "best" because everything depends on your personal situation.
 
Best Home Defense Ammo is the one that works best for you and your situation. Buy a bunch of different kinds, head out the range and BA/UU/R, until you feel comfortable with the shotgun and the load.
 
Lotsa input in the Archives.

00 is usually a good choice. Test different brands to find the best in YOUR shotgun...
 
do you have children in the house? 00 will go through a lot of dry wall and if you are not sure where the kids vs BGs are could be a problem.
 
Federal reduced recoil has a very good pattern in my Reminton 870 18" cylinder barrel.

Hornady TAP has the very best pattern of anything I have ever shot out of any shotgun - stays tight for a long way out - extends the B Zone even in my cylinder barrel.

(I still want to get an Improved Cylinder rifle-sighted barrel, ala the police models)
 
No children, just wifey. I have been happy with the pattern of Federal 00 and do have an 18" barrel. The reason I had been thinking about it is because a guy at the local gunshop where I bought the 870 recommended #4 shot. I tried that out and it seemed like a good pattern but I just feel more confident with 00.

bigPEA
 
A couple of other things is if you live in apartment you do not want to pop the guy next door again 00 penetration, or what kind of sidding is on your house the 00 could possibly go into the house next door again thats a bad thing. I would consider what is the longest distance that you could shoot in your house 20 feet? 50 feet?. Then test the pattern on some field loads #7 or 8 or #4 turkey at that range. If you check the stats I bet you find that at the range you would be shooting that the lighter loads still have the power to put down the BG
 
There's no doubt birdshot will do considerable nasties at close range. In six years of running on an ambulance/rescue crew I got to see how much first hand.

Even so, I keep 00 in the house guns here. Most LE agencies use it, for a reason- it works on human critters. Any birds that break in here, the Brittany will gladly take care of 8^). And just in case the Hornady TAP doesn't work, there's Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddle for backup.

If overpenetration is a concern, you might want to consider other alternatives. But keep in mind, anything that won't go through drywall is not going to do much to discourage bad guys either.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc
 
Yeah makes sense, I am going to hit the range this weekend and try out a few different types and keep good track of spread patterns from different distances but I feel that 00 buck is what i'll continue to use for HD.

Thanks for all of the input...

bigPEA
 
My shotgun instructor brought up a very good point during my "Tactical Shotgun Class"

Out to about 7 yards an ounce of lead is an ounce of lead - it doesn't matter if it's birdshot or buckshot - if it's in the A-zone it's gonna be seriously hurt regardless of what shot you have loaded.

Of course, once you get out past so many yards the velocity decreases rapidly with the birdshot because there is not enough inertia in those little pellets.
 
My shotgun instructor brought up a very good point during my "Tactical Shotgun Class"

Out to about 7 yards an ounce of lead is an ounce of lead - it doesn't matter if it's birdshot or buckshot - if it's in the A-zone it's gonna be seriously hurt regardless of what shot you have loaded.

Of course, once you get out past so many yards the velocity decreases rapidly with the birdshot because there is not enough inertia in those little pellets.

REPHRASED: Your instructor is misinformed and it could get you hurt.

This "birdshot is good for HD" myth needs to die. If I loaded a shell with an ounce of fine lead dust, would that be a good HD round? If not, why not?
It is an "ounce of lead" and you assure everyone that any ounce of lead is just as good as another ounce of lead. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Birdshot is for the birds.
 
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Keep it on The High Road, 1911.

Back in the day, I had access to a govt database that gave percentages on one shot stops with various firearms. Shotguns were 99%, no load or choke given.

Set up a large target at 7 yards and place a load of birdshot center mass. Forensic techs tell me that a 5" spread is close to optimum.

The trouble with birdshot is we cannot predict what distance our next firefight will be at. Buck works well out to 25 yards or so, so it's often the better choice.
 
Dave, don't waste your time trying to change minds which are set.

You are, of course, correct. The "experts" will sight a report which most have not even read. READ IT. It shows that birdshot will penetrate 6"
into the human body body cavity with the conclusion "no vital organs will be involved.." Dear God! Blow a hole 6" deep in a man and he is not going to fight you! You don't need to blow out a kidney to stop the fight.

Yet, folks will load 00 buck and keep believing this crap.

I was there when an officer shot a felon with an ITHACA Auto Burglar 20 ga with birdshot. It did the trick.

The average room is 10X15. Tell me birdshot will not end the news at that distance. Add furniture to the room and the terminal distance is much less. I was there and saw it happen.

Of course, don't let experience cloud the matter. :D
 
^^^

I thought you needed to sever the spinal chord or break the brain box to reliably stop a fight, or poke enough deep holes in arteries and organs to induce shock, or break enough bones to destroy mobility, or be fighting a stable minded weak willed criminal who will give up once shot.

I keep my SD shotgun loaded with low recoil 00, if I have to shoot someone I want 8 deep .33 holes to hopefully hit the spine or break some bones. I'm not trusting ugly superficial wounds to stop a fight.

Consitency > Sometimes
 
Generaly speaking the smaller the shot the more area it is going to damage. However the smaller the shot the less penetration each pellet is going to have. So the ideal shot is the one that goes deep enough to do enough damage, yet is as small as possible to accomplish that so you maximize what I call the "hamburger" effect. Big pellets make holes, tons of pellets make hamburger.

Distance and potential cover change the criteria a lot. Patrol officers often use (per department policy) 00 because it is effective out to a longer range, and they need some penetration of cover as well. So they pick a general purpose round that does not come up too short on any specific area.
CQB guys often use #4 buck because it is really nasty and has a high hamburger effect and in the real world often penetrates deep enough. Some feel penetration needs to be at least 12" deep to reliably hit organs from all angles. Usualy they won't be that deep, but to accomplish that #1 buck is the best load.

The idea is to keep the pellet count and "hamburger" effect as high as possible and still penetrate as deep as necessary. Bird shot has the most massive hamburger effect, but will not penetrate deep enough to destroy organs reliably. This means tissue that is hit with birdshot is pretty much destroyed at close range, but the wound is only a few inches deep and while the tissue will be beyond repair, it won't surely stop the guy from continuing an attack if determined.
The reverse is that the bigger you get, the more of the shotgun hamburger effect you lose, which is what really makes them so deadly. Having something important in the body turned into instant hamburger is going to have a much more immediate effect than simply putting a hole through it, but it has to get deep enough to reach it.

Some are firm believers in #4 buck, which seems to be more common for sale than #1, and others don't want something that penetrates less than 12" and consider #1 buck the best overall by having the highest pellet count that can also penetrate 12" of ballistic gelatin. Yet others have barrier considerations, walls, car doors, windshields, longer distances to contend with and need 00,000 or slugs to both penetrate that mild cover and still penetrate enough to be effective or still be effective dozens of yards away.
If #1 is best directly on the target, 0 or 00 would be necessary for the same penetration after going through light cover.

Police use 00 because it covers the biggest spectrum of uses, not because it is necessarily the best one shot performer. Coincidentaly this has caused most people to feel it is the most adequate for thier defensive needs because if the police rely on it, it must be better suited for thier needs. So 00 is often the cheapest defensive caliber and the one you will find the best deals on and be able to practice with the most because it has the greatest demand and therefore the greatest production.

Also consider most ballistic tests are conducted at a range much greater than across the room distances, so the penetration factor is higher than rated. However tissue is not all uniformly the same density either, so it tends to balance out.

Further criteria than simply pellet mass/size and therefore momentum can also cause slight variations. Plated, hardened, pellets will penetrate deeper than soft lead ones. So for example, hardened plated #4 penetrates as deep as a slightly larger buckshot size because it deforms less and makes better use of its energy. Bringing it closer to #1 which meets the 12" criteria.

However "tactical" or "reduced recoil" loads will either have a reduced payload, or reduced muzzle velocity which means they will penetrate more like a lesser buckshot size. So if someone likes such rounds they would want to go to slightly larger pellets than what they feel is necessary to keep the same level of penetration.

So there really is no uniform perfect answer for all situations. Pick what suits you.
 
No matter what the defensive weapon used, you have two parameters to consider if said weapon is to be effective: Placement, and Penetration.

You the shooter are responsible for Placement.

Your ammunition is responsible for Penetration.

That is why I repeatedly stress: YOUR SKILLS are more important than YOUR HARDWARE. You have to deliver projectiles to a vital area on your target. There is no substitute for that.

Those projectiles, once delivered, must penetrate sufficiently to reach vital organs. There is no substitute for that.

Insufficiency in either parameter is apt to land you in trouble. It is true birdshot at close range can kill, if delivered to a vital area. I too have seen it happen.

But there is a long history of LE and military use of 00 buck. It works on human targets. That's good enough for me, YMMV of course.

lpl/nc
 
I keep a single shot 16ga loaded with #4 buck for HD. I know that in the ranges I would encounter in my apartment I can hit reliably, and I know that #4 buck is plenty lethal when used correctly.
 
Wow.... after reading those recommendations, I may need to rethink having my 870 filled with slugs. Sure, the bg will be dead, but the damage to the house?? Who is gonna fill in those holes??


.
 
This "birdshot is good for HD" myth needs to die. If I loaded a shell with an ounce of fine lead dust, would that be a good HD round? If not, why not?
It is an "ounce of lead" and you assure everyone that any ounce of lead is just as good as another ounce of lead.
I recommend asking the gun.

With a 20" cylinder bore barrel, my Model 37 Ithaca with #6 or #8 shot would not be a reliable stopper at 15 feet -- by actual test. It shoots a nice pattern, but there is no clump. Penetration is about what your would expect from such individual small shot.

When I put the 26" barrel on and screw in the full choke, it's a different story. Fired into wet newsprint at that range, the entrance hole is about 3/4" (just about muzzle size) and the damage is massive. Penetration in this media is about 12" -- deeper than the average man's chest.
 
good idea vern,

take the longest range you will shoot in your house, and then go and test. Also consider if the wife my need to use this gun, I had a friend that had a 870 with a pistol grip, and he had it loaded with )) buck, and thought his wife could use it one trip to the rnage changed his mind.
 
Is not birdshot. I saw my father empty an entire 870 full of 3.5 inch #7 shot into a rabid dog. I was loading my rifle, not standing around watching, by the way, heh.

Anyway, this is enough to prove to me that it's not good for self defense. The shot pattern didn't open up much at 7 yards, yet it had no effect on the animal, amplify this by a hopped-up, 250 pound felon and imagine your results.

I have no doubt, however, that 000 or 00 buckshot would have put it down. It simply penetrates more, causes more real damage, rather than superficial wounds in the first few inches of the body.

In the end, it's what you feel prepared with. I can only recomend my choice to you.
 
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