Best suppressed rifle cartridge.

[jmr40]

I know very little about suppressed rifles, but have a few friends who do. They will search high and low, and pay a premium for one of the Ruger 77's that were made in 7.62X39 and add a suppressor.

 

[Collector0311]

For you ballistics guys, how drastically do you think an 1894c's ballistic performance would be affected by shortening barrel length to about 12-14 inches? (Like the picture shown in this thread) Shooting either .357 or .38sp

 

[451 Detonics]

They will search high and low, and pay a premium for one of the Ruger 77's that were made in 7.62X39 and add a suppressor.

Why not just go with a .308?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Why not go with a .308? Because it is hypersonic. If you want a truly suppressed rifle round, the best are the Whisper series, with the .300 Whisper being the most practical, and the .510 Whisper being the most effective. SSK has the proprietary (and most expensive) options, but other manufacturers can provide alternatively "marked" (i.e.: .300 Whisper is the .300/.221, etc) cartridge/rifles that take the same cartridges for a lot less money. I have both the .300/.221, and the 12.7x48mm (the alternative ".510 Whisper"). Once you have a quantity of brass, and reload, they become less expensive than current commercial .308 ammunition.

 

[dubbleA]

Why not go with a .308? Because it is hypersonic.

308....It's dual purpose ya know, using TrailBoss and 178-208 amax the 308 is "whisper" quiet and RL17 or Varget you can pep things up a bit.

 

[451 Detonics]

Why not go with a .308? Because it is hypersonic.

So is a factory 7.62X39...

give a listen...this is my Ruger 77 in .308 (yes that is my fat butt behind the trigger)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LF4QpZMeVU

My Whisper is actually louder due to the action cycling...

 

[jmorris]

For you ballistics guys, how drastically do you think an 1894c's ballistic performance would be affected by shortening barrel length to about 12-14 inches? (Like the picture shown in this thread) Shooting either .357 or .38sp

Zero if you are going for subsonic

 

[Collector0311]

Zero if you are going for subsonic

I know it's dependent on the specific cartridge, but what do you think the longest barrel length is you could use before flirting with supersonic territory in 357mag? And what about energy retained at 150yds or less. I know there are tables for this but haven't got a clue where to start looking. Basically what I want is a suppressed, lever action hog rifle chambered in a cheap, large grain capable caliber. Something that will stay subsonic out of the shortened barrel but still drop pork like it's nothin

 

[451 Detonics]

I know it's dependent on the specific cartridge, but what do you think the longest barrel length is you could use before flirting with supersonic territory in 357mag?

Well considering the standard 180gr .357 load is at 1150 fps out of a 6 inch revolver I would say you would have to really download it out of a rifle to keep it under 1050.

 

[Collector0311]

Good point. I'll have to look into doing the suppressor integrally and seeing if the ports in the barrel can bleed off enough gas to drop the velocity

 

[451 Detonics]

Or just shoot 38 Specials in it.

 

[Collector0311]

Will they stay sub out of a 12-14in barrel? I don't typically think of them as a hog caliber. I could be convinced however

 

[451 Detonics]

With a 200 grain bullet at 1040 gives you about 480 foot pound of energy, a bit light for hogs I think.

 

[Pigoutultra]

I would suggest using either a .45 lc or a .45-70 downloaded with the .45 lc you're limited to about 300 grainers 400 if you can find them, with .45-70 you can have 500 grainers the .45-70 will need downloading to get to subsonic though. .45 sub would be 750-1000 ft/lbs depending on if you can use 400 grainers or not. .45-70 would be about 1000-1300 ft/lbs depending on what weight.

You could convert a 1911 to .45 super and get a threaded barrel and use 255 grainers for about 550-700 ft/lbs.

I don't like to use ft/lbs all that much as they don't give the whole story. I go by sectional density, diameter, and velocity.

 

[451 Detonics]

I agree with the foot pounds not being the ideal way to judge a bullet's capabilities. Bullet design does have a great deal to do with the way it will perform on game animals. I would not hesitate to shoot a big hog with my 300 Whisper for example. But the design of the Whisper's bullet (pointed) allows it to penetrate better than the big wide flat point of a 200 grain pistol bullet. The Taylor KO formula is weighted to favor the heavier bullets and doesn't translate well to subsonic loadings either. It also doesn't take bullet design as part of the equation.

I think experience and building on prior knowledge of those who have gone before us is key. I don't think, nor do many other, that a lightly loaded .38 is sufficient for large game. You also need to add the toughness of the animal being hunted into the equation.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

The original question was "the BEST suppressed rifle cartridge". While the .308 and 7.62x39 can be loaded down (to .300 Whisper ballistics ), they are fired in guns that generally do not have optimal twist rates, and the oversize of the cartridges presents problems in uniform burning of the reduced powder charges that accompany subsonic loadings. If you want an OPTIMAL cartridge, you can use a case with much less case capacity than either the .308 or 7.62x39. The 7.62x39 is not bad, as it is smaller than the .308, and with heavy bullets does fairly well. Where it fails is available rifles with suitable, faster twists. As we know, faster (i.e. 1-8") twists stabilize heavier bullets better. Subsonic .308 and 7.62x39 cartridges give no better ballistics than the .300 Whisper, and generally give poorer performance, as once you use 200gr or heavier bullets, their slower twists do not stabilize the bullets well. It isn't the issue that those subsonics aren't quiet, it's that you sacrifice accuracy/power/performance, etc, just to employ them in the more standard guns (weapons in .300 Whisper being less "standard".)

 

[Wonder9]

No one came to defend the lowly .22LR.

It is a rifle round, the most commonly available cartridge, and no doubt the "quietest" report to suppress. Also, a large market of available suppressors.

 

[451 Detonics]

While the .308 and 7.62x39 can be loaded down (to .300 Whisper ballistics ), they are fired in guns that generally do not have optimal twist rates, and the oversize of the cartridges presents problems in uniform burning of the reduced powder charges that accompany subsonic loadings.

My Ruger shoots under one inch at 100yards using 220 grain Match Kings and Trail Boss powder. It is the equal of my 300 Whisper in the accuracy department. The use of Trail Boss powder eliminates the case capacity issue.

 

[jmorris]

c




I know it's dependent on the specific cartridge, but what do you think the longest barrel length is you could use before flirting with supersonic territory in 357mag? And what about energy retained at 150yds or less. I know there are tables for this but haven't got a clue where to start looking. Basically what I want is a suppressed, lever action hog rifle chambered in a cheap, large grain capable caliber. Something that will stay subsonic out of the shortened barrel but still drop pork like it's nothin

If you don't already reload a 44mag lever shooting 44spl will do what you want.

 

[redbullitt]

For best overall, no cost issue etc, Go full on .510 whisper.

Best suppression, cost, and fun factor? .22 LR all the way.

However, I will say that using trailboss and 180g rn or 150s, I have had great experience with a regular old 308 winchester with sub loads. I already have the rifle, load gear etc. Another good point for me is that since I have a 10 twist barrel, I can also use the rifle for supersonics. It is a good compromise for me. Accuracy is just about an inch at 100 yards. I can do a little better if I really work on the loading or add filler etc. BUT 1 minute-ish works just fine for what I use it for.

I think that if you can throw a really fast twist barrel (maybe a 1/8) into the mix, you would be able to utilize the really heavy bullets in subsonic loads, AND still go super sonic with the heavies.

 

[Zak Smith]

I have a .300 Whisper/Fireball SBR and it's neat.

But full-power rifle cartridges are way, way more versatile and sound great through a modern can.

Back to subs, there is almost no benefit from the BC increase from .30 caliber projectiles to .338 or .50. The velocity is too low for it to really make a difference.

Bang for buck, subsonic .22LR is the most fun IMO.

 

[rsilvers]

300 AAC BLACKOUT. Here is a partial list of companies starting to make products for it:


AAC - uppers, rifles, silencers, and ammunition.
Adams Arms - rifles and uppers.
AR15 Performance - barrels.
Atlanta Arms - ammo.
Barnes Bullets - bullets.
Black Hole Weaponry - barrels.
Brad's Warehouse - converted brass.
Bushmaster Firearms - uppers and rifles.
BWE Firearms - rifles, uppers, and suppressors.
CMMG - barrels.
Compass Lake Engineering - AR barrels.
Cor-Bon - ammo
Delta Company Arms - rifles, barrels, uppers.
Dillon Precision - reloading conversion kits.
Double Tap - ammo.
DPMS - rifles and uppers.
Forster - reloading dies.
Hornady - ammo, dies.
Lee - reloading dies.
Lewis Machine and Tool - barrels, uppers, rifles.
Loki Weapon Systems - uppers/rifles.
Lone Star Armory - 300 AAC BLACKOUT marked lowers.
Lothar Walther - barrels.
Match Grade Machine - Thompson barrels.
McGowen Barrel - Savage and other barrels.
Montana Rifleman - barrels.
Noveske - rifles and uppers.
One Shot - ammo.
Pac-Nor - barrels.
Pacific Tool and Gauge - reamers and gauges.
PNW Arms - ammo.
Primary Weapons Systems - rifles and uppers.
Raven Armament Company - ammo and uppers.
Redding - dies.
Remington - ammunition.
Satern Custom Machining, Inc. - barrels.
Selph Arms LLC - barrels, uppers, re-chambering, and rifles.
SI Defense - barrels.
Sierra - bullets.
SilencerCo - silencers.
Southern Ballistic Research - ammo.
Surefire - 300 BLK sound suppressor.
Spike's Tactical - uppers and rifles.
The Bullet Works - bullets and ammunition.
Triton Arms - AR barrels.
Umlaut Industries - 300 BLK caliber marked Rifles, Upper and Lowers. 16" and 10" Factory Title II.
White Oak Precision - AR barrels.
Wilson Combat - rifles, hunting and self defense ammunition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRw-ypBgrKo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPiqZXu9kP0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbYLyfFf9u8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VivPz-Z0wAw

www.300aacblackout.com

 

[T.R.]

44 Special with 240 grain semi-wadcutter. Deadly accurate to 50 yards or so.

TR

 

[Afy]

.22 lr

Here in europe we supress everything. The 22 is the most fun though.