Bill Introduced: ATF Elimination Act H.R. 5522

[ConstitutionCowboy]

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The GCA prohibits felons, drug addicts, mental defectives, etc....and other undesirables from purchasing firearms. I am aware that those beings are able to obtain guns from other sources, but should we make it legal for them to buy guns ?

No need. Lock them up until they can be trusted to be armed out in society. Then, there will be no concern with whomever buys a gun from whatever source.

You're welcome.

Woody

 

[happygeek]

You are correct re: your 1st question. As previously noted, I admitted I didn't have all the answers. Also, statistics are not always conclusive.

Maybe you can shed some light on why the 1950's and the 2011-2012 homicide rates are essentially the same, with the 1968 GCA in between those two eras ?

So nothing to support the 68 GCA, got it.

I've been looking, Cook and Ludwig wrote a bit about it and the Brady Law. They're hardly NRA shrills.

I don't care to guess at why the homicide rate shot up after the GCA, and stayed up for about 28 years. I'll let the aforementioned Cook and Ludwig explain it but from what I've read so far they haven't been able to find that the GCA accomplished anything (http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/Brookings_Pragmatic_Gun_Chapter1.pdf).

It's their law, let them justify why we "need" it.

The GCA prohibits felons, drug addicts, mental defectives, etc....and other undesirables from purchasing firearms. I am aware that those beings are able to obtain guns from other sources, but should we make it legal for them to buy guns ?

You've never read the 1938 Federal Firearms Act? (https://homicide.northwestern.edu/docs_fk/homicide/laws/national_firearms_act_of_1938.pdf)

 

[Gun Master]

No need. Lock them up until they can be trusted to be armed out in society. Then, there will be no concern with whomever buys a gun from whatever source.

You're welcome.

Woody

You didn't answer the question. "Should we make it legal for felons, and etc......to buy guns ?"

Your actual answer was, "No need. Lock them up until they can be trusted......".
Are you serious? Lock up felons (for what crime when time served)? Drug addicts, mental defectives, etc.......lock up for what reason?

I don't want them to have a gun, but not to lock up somebody because someone else says so.

That doesn't sound American !
I'm anti-gun control, but I'm not for this ideology.
This sounds like Nazi Germany or Stalinist/Putin Commie rhetoric.
Please think about what you're saying man.

 

[Gun Master]

So nothing to support the 68 GCA, got it.

I've been looking, Cook and Ludwig wrote a bit about it and the Brady Law. They're hardly NRA shrills.

I don't care to guess at why the homicide rate shot up after the GCA, and stayed up for about 28 years. I'll let the aforementioned Cook and Ludwig explain it but from what I've read so far they haven't been able to find that the GCA accomplished anything (http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/papers/Brookings_Pragmatic_Gun_Chapter1.pdf).

It's their law, let them justify why we "need" it.



You've never read the 1938 Federal Firearms Act? (https://homicide.northwestern.edu/docs_fk/homicide/laws/national_firearms_act_of_1938.pdf)

I couldn't read the two sites you listed, for whatever reason, but thanks.

I've had a thought about the most recent decrease in homicide rates. Nothing written in stone, but could it be possible that the increasing number of states legalizing CCW, is the reason. The potential victims are armed, and have the increased ability to protect themselves ? Maybe that and stricter laws against violent (even gun bearing) crime ? It would vary from state to state, but seems a trend nationally.

 

[happygeek]

They're both direct links to PDFs, might not work so well on some phones & tablets.

There's plenty of theories out there on why the homicide rate went up after the 68 GCA. There's plenty of theories on the drop in the 90s. Plenty of those theories have nothing at all to do with guns or gun control schemes, for example: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf Some of those theories have quite a bit more to back them up then the idea that the 68 GCA lowered the homicide rate.

 

[Gun Master]

They're both direct links to PDFs, might not work so well on some phones & tablets.

There's plenty of theories out there on why the homicide rate went up after the 68 GCA. There's plenty of theories on the drop in the 90s. Plenty of those theories have nothing at all to do with guns or gun control schemes, for example: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf

Thanks.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

You didn't answer the question. "Should we make it legal for felons, and etc......to buy guns ?"

Your actual answer was, "No need. Lock them up until they can be trusted......".
Are you serious? Lock up felons (for what crime when time served)? Drug addicts, mental defectives, etc.......lock up for what reason?

Look at Martha Stewart. She's a felon, she has been released from prison, and I can't think of anyone who would not trust her with a gun.

I don't want them to have a gun, but not to lock up somebody because someone else says so.

That doesn't sound American !

Ever heard of 'due process'? If a person has been adjudicated to be untrustworthy with a weapon, I'd call that 'due process' and very American and Constitutional to boot! It wasn't you, me, nor anyone else that caused the perp to commit a violent felony; it was the perp him(her)self that did it. They are the ones who had the 'say so' as to what their behavior was to be, and be willing to accept the consequences attendant to that behavior.

I'm anti-gun control, but I'm not for this ideology. This sounds like Nazi Germany or Stalinist/Putin Commie rhetoric.
Please think about what you're saying man.

I've thought about it a lot. I used to believe that forbidding felons was the right thing to do until I realized most felons are not violent, and that once released from custody, they have the same rights and privileges as any of the rest of us, such as free speech, the right to a trial with a jury of their peers, to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and etc., etc.. That includes the right to keep and bear arms as well.

The only positive way to keep arms out of the hands of violent criminals is to keep those hands and the biological mechanism that controls them locked up. That is constitutional with due process. Denying them any right once released from the custody and protection of the state is unconstitutional. And, since due process put them there, due process is the only way to show they are no longer a threat to society.

Martha Stewart is not a violent felon. Wanda Jean Allen was a violent felon who murdered her lesbian lover after being released from prison for killing her then lesbian lover. Wanda Jean Allen should never have been released from prison. Martha Stewart should be allowed to keep and bear as many arms as she so chooses.

As for the adjudicated insane, institutionalization is the answer. Once adjudicated as being no longer a threat to society, they have the same rights God gave us all. Juveniles are under the guardianship of their parents. Once of age or emancipated, they have the same rights God gave us all.

Woody

 

[HexHead]

There's plenty of theories out there on why the homicide rate went up after the 68 GCA. There's plenty of theories on the drop in the 90s.

Both had to do with the coming of age and later, the aging of baby boomers, which made up the largest portion of our population.