Bill to Ban Assault Weapons, High-Capacity Magazines Hours After House Dems Pass Gun Control Bill

[Ignition Override]

DustyGmt:

That’s good to see comments about the Lack of Compliance with UBCs in VT.

Has anybody in Non-compliance been Ratted On by an enemy, ex-girlfriend etc .... to the extent that they paid a huge legal fee to fight charges or such ..?

 

[DustyGmt]

Page 24 has this little nugget for everyone that wondered out loud how .gov would know when thier 11+ mags were made.

I was 6yo when the last AWB went into effect. How were magazines determined to be pre ban? Weren't magazines and Semi autos that were subject to the ban legal to posess and sell as long as they were manufactured before the ban?

Were the magazines and guns marked in such a way that made them distinguishable from post ban magazines and ammo?

 

[Harriw]

Look at Page 13 Lines 11 through 13 - (L) Any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraphs (A) through (K) can be assembled.

I saw this too and was wondering the same regarding buying uppers, grips, etc. However, it does say a combination of parts from which a firearm can be assembled... if there is no spare lower receiver to put them on, then you couldn't assemble a firearm, right?

Also, any un-built lower you already have should be grandfathered, right? So the way I read this we'd still OK buying new uppers for existing lowers, buying new parts, etc. As long as you didn't have a new lower receiver as part of that parts pile (and it looks like you couldn't legally buy a new lower receiver anyway if this were to go into effect?)

However, who knows if that's how the ATF, police, courts, etc. Would interpret it.

 

[Zahn]

(snip)
However, who knows if that's how the ATF, police, courts, etc. Would interpret it.

This. I doubt reason, logic or legality enters into their plans or how this will be delivered. And I also believe they will take the most liberal (ha!) approach to interpretation. "That [forward grip/barrel shroud/threaded barrel] is a specifically listed part, from which a banned firearm can be assembled. Verboten!"

 

[Walkalong]

I take your point, but banning "all" guns would be a VERY tall order

And is also their end goal.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I was 6yo when the last AWB went into effect. How were magazines determined to be pre ban? Weren't magazines and Semi autos that were subject to the ban legal to posess and sell as long as they were manufactured before the ban?

Were the magazines and guns marked in such a way that made them distinguishable from post ban magazines and ammo?

Post-ban magazines were marked "Law Enforcement Use Only."

 

[Harriw]

Another question... barrel shrouds are banned, and defined in this bill. The "definition" makes me wonder if a free-float hand guard now qualifies as a "barrel shroud?"

 

[herrwalther]

Another question... barrel shrouds are banned, and defined in this bill. The "definition" makes me wonder if a free-float hand guard now qualifies as a "barrel shroud?"

Antigunner definitions 101: Scary terms can mean whatever they want to be. "Assault weapon" used to be ARs and AKs. Then it became anything with "scary" features to put them on a comprehensive list.

As stated, I have zero faith in the Senate to preserve the 2A. I don't even expect our "conservative" Supreme Court to do so either. The only recourse I see is a massive level of non compliance to the point where the law is useless.

 

[DustyGmt]

@Walkalong

Understood. That very well seems to be the case and while it does concern me, I'm more concerned with what is on the chopping block right now in terms of this bill. I certainly wasn't implying that my suggestion of educating people further on some of the more cosmetic, superficial aspects of this bill would be extremely effective, but if any of it did land and make an impression, well that would be a good thing.

I always hear these type of remarks vis a vis the gun debate "no ya kook, we aren't trying to take your guns, just guns that look like this or fire 100rds per second". It seems somebody ought to go through the trouble of informing the other side that semi autos don't fire at that rate, and those cosmetic features don't dictate lethality.

 

[illinoisburt]

Does anybody know what a semi auto pistol with a fixed magazine capable of holding more than 10rds would be? Pg. 4 (E) of the bill

I would hazzard that is to prevent the now common fixed magazine ARs pistols sold in California. I had honestly not heard of the concept until recently. People apparently came up with the idea of making them fixed magazine breaktops after the state banned all new pistols with a detachable magazine outside the grip.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Part of one of the bills is a provision to allow the FBI 10 days to figure out if a person is OK to receive a gun, and another 10 days to answer a challenge.

These will no doubt be business days, so the period goes from the current 3 days to a month.

What do you think the chances are, if it’s passes, that since there’s no longer a rush that they won’t use every one of those days?

That was 1446 which already passed the House.

Yes, both 10-day periods are business days.

We have a chance to prevent it passing the Senate.

This bill was inspired by the Charleston church shooting. The premise is that given 10 business days instead of 3, the FBI would have discovered the clerical error (wrong arresting agency entered by jailhouse clerk) that resulted in them apparently not finding Roof's arrest record. I find that hard to believe, when nothing turned up on him, what would have inspired them to go hunting to see if there were any clerical errors related to him? Something is wrong with the way the NICCS database is designed. If the lookup were by social security number it should find everything related to the prospective buyer, regardless of the jurisdiction in which s/he became a prohibited person.

Another tragic case, the Sutherland Springs church shooting, also involved a perpetrator who "legally" purchased his weapon even though he should have been flagged as a prohibited person -- the Air Force (!) failed to report his domestic abuse history to the NICCS database.

I think our arguments against this bill can stress that this bill will not accomplish its stated goal as long as reporting entities fail to properly do their job. We should advocate for heavy penalties on reporting agencies who fail to promptly and correctly submit required information to NICCS.

Another argument against this bill is that a right delayed is a right denied. What happens to a domestic abuse survivor whose ex is suddenly released from prison? She needs to be able to protect herself NOW, not a month from now. These days when violent criminals are suddenly being let out (supposedly due to covid or whatever) this is a serious danger. If the woman believed the ex was going to stay locked up for a long time as per his sentence, she might not yet have prepared to defend herself.

 

[DustyGmt]

I think our arguments against this bill can stress that this bill will not accomplish its stated goal as long as reporting entities fail to properly do their job. We should advocate for heavy penalties on reporting agencies who fail to promptly and correctly submit required information to NICCS.

That, and maybe when somebody becomes a prohibited person perhaps they ought to be notified with a special document that requires a signature and acknowledgement from the prohibited person and maybe a lil legal repercussions for someone who is knowingly prohibited attempting to buy a gun. That's a more appropriately targeted approach that leaves us out of it, as we should be. Probably wouldn't be that effective but hey, neither is their idea.....

 

[old lady new shooter]

I take your point, but banning "all" guns would be a VERY tall order. I think the more people are made to see that they are targeting guns based on features like furniture, barrel shrouds, threaded bbls, forward grips, etc, would possibly make it a harder row to hoe for them and any additional hurdles that stand in their way would be a welcome blessing.

A Mossberg 500 for instance, one configured with a 28" vent rib bbl, checkered wood stock, classic blued finish with engraved receiver VS a Mossberg 500 with 20' bbl, parkerized, black synthetic stock, maybe a forward grip, ask the average person which one is more lethal. Chances are people will be prejudiced toward the black tactical looking Mossberg even though they can both inflict the same carnage.

Maybe some people (voters) would consider their position more carefully, probably wishful thinking but getting people more complete and accurate information would be a good thing no?

This is a very good point. Can we get some of the 2A groups to make an ad showing your Mossberg example and/or similar?

 

[old lady new shooter]

ARs that have had the magazines fixed in the well and are loaded throuh the ejection port

How many rounds do they hold?
How long does it take to load one?

 

[old lady new shooter]

@Walkalong

Understood. That very well seems to be the case and while it does concern me, I'm more concerned with what is on the chopping block right now in terms of this bill. I certainly wasn't implying that my suggestion of educating people further on some of the more cosmetic, superficial aspects of this bill would be extremely effective, but if any of it did land and make an impression, well that would be a good thing.

I always hear these type of remarks vis a vis the gun debate "no ya kook, we aren't trying to take your guns, just guns that look like this or fire 100rds per second". It seems somebody ought to go through the trouble of informing the other side that semi autos don't fire at that rate, and those cosmetic features don't dictate lethality.

I think the "other side" knows that perfectly well. They just say this stuff to get uninformed citizens on their side. So the uninformed citizens are the ones we need to reach.

 

[old lady new shooter]

That, and maybe when somebody becomes a prohibited person perhaps they ought to be notified with a special document that requires a signature and acknowledgement from the prohibited person and maybe a lil legal repercussions for someone who is knowingly prohibited attempting to buy a gun. That's a more appropriately targeted approach that leaves us out of it, as we should be. Probably wouldn't be that effective but hey, neither is their idea.....

That's a good idea. Dunno how many would then not bother trying to "legally" buy firearms but at least if they bought out of the trunk of some gangbanger's car and then made their shootings, the antis wouldn't have an excuse to attack law-abiding gun owners.

 

[danez71]

How many rounds do they hold?
How long does it take to load one?

In CA, 10 rounds.... but I think only 10 rounders are made.

You can load the fixed mag MUCH faster than a loading a removeable mag by hand but it's slower than just changing an already loaded non fixed mag.

 

[wiscoaster]

There's a YouTube Gun channel that has an interesting take on gun control legislation and comes up with a surprisingly different viewpoint from reading between the lines, which can be summed up as "it's not going to happen"

https://www.youtube.com/c/LangleyFirearmsAcademy/videos

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

How many rounds do they hold?
How long does it take to load one?

Currently only 10 rounders, but if there were a loophole allowing more, there's no reason they couldnt do 20 or 30. The ejection port loading devices are pretty fast, Im sure you can probably find a Youtube video showing them in action.

 

[gyp_c2]

Does anybody know what a semi auto pistol with a fixed magazine capable of holding more than 10rds would be? Pg. 4 (E) of the bill

Old Mauser top loaded pistol.

 

[Zerodefect]

I always hear these type of remarks vis a vis the gun debate "no ya kook, we aren't trying to take your guns, just guns that look like this or fire 100rds per second". It seems somebody ought to go through the trouble of informing the other side that semi autos don't fire at that rate, and those cosmetic features don't dictate lethality.

It's easier for some gun owners to lie to themselves and others, than it is to admit that they should be very, very, upset. No matter what get's banned, they'll make up some excuse why it's OK. Because it's easier. They know it's wrong. They don't want to admit it. Because then they'd have to do something about it, or label themselves a coward.

You can spot this phenomena with anything corrupt that this countries gov't does. Every wrong policy from taxation to border control. There's always someone trying to rationalize it with some weak excuse. Like a father trying to deal with an idiot son.

 

[Old Dog]

There's a YouTube Gun channel that has an interesting take on gun control legislation and comes up with a surprisingly different viewpoint from reading between the lines, which can be summed up as "it's not going to happen"
https://www.youtube.com/c/LangleyFirearmsAcademy/videos

'Pears he's only speaking to the two bills that've already passed the House (regarding background checks). The "AWB 2021" will certainly generate a great deal more emotion.

 

[HOWARD J]

This is just a start--many many more anti-gun bills will follow--Semi auto weapons kill the fewest on any weapon of any kind----they keep that very quiet & keep showing dead children---stay alert

 

[GEM]

Do you mean semi auto long arms? Need to qualify that. Also we know that a mass causality event has more visual impact that individual shoots in crimes, gang interactions and suicides. It's not really kept quiet if you know the literature.

 

[Dale Alan]

Does anybody know what a semi auto pistol with a fixed magazine capable of holding more than 10rds would be? Pg. 4 (E) of the bill

Mauser C 96...

Edit: I may be wrong, but I think it only holds ten now that I think about it. .