Black "fake" revolver pointed at me on campus today

[thorn726]

brandishing a weapon

in California, that is a crime, for fun or not! not sure if it is a felony but it is definitely no joke and the police can KILL YOU for that.

doesn't matter if its fake, if it presents a reasonable appearance of the real thing, it is as bad as a real gun!!

 

[Prince Yamato]

At the University of Texas, it is illegal to have a fake (replica) gun on premises without prior approval from the University. Did they have approval? If not, they may committed a felony. Check your state laws and school rules.

 

[conw]

Evil Monkey,

Believe me, I was steamed, as I said.

But you have to realize that these were individuals acting irresponsibly. I am giving the school a chance to redeem itself, just like I gave the professor a chance to redeem himself. So far he hasn't, and I hope that they will.

Just because I could have done it doesn't mean I should have done it (SWAT team, 6 o clock news, etc) and I am now happy I didn't. I don't want to make my life hard here, and I want to continue going to school. I realize the hypocrisy of a liberal school that prohibits (and seems, in some cases, to discriminate against those who choose it) ownership of guns "allowing" this sort of incident...

As others have said it was tough to decide what to do, then and there. I reached a point where I wanted to look for the sorry SOB who let it happen and let him have it verbally. I didn't know he was a prof and didn't care. Then I realized that'd just be shooting myself in the foot. I'm glad I didn't find him at that point in time, as two wrongs don't make a right (nor does one Wong take a right ).

Anyway, I am happy with my actions thus far, and really appreciate all the positive feedback (and constructive criticism). I just forwarded the email I sent to the prof to the head of public safety, the president of the school, the dean of students, and another administration member whom I gave a firsthand account of events and who advocated my side of things and helped me track the guy down in the first place.

Hope to have something to share by tonight....

Thanks
Conwict

 

[XDKingslayer]

But you have to realize that these were individuals acting irresponsibly.

I agree with Evil Monkey. I would have done the swat, 6 o'clock news thing. Sometimes stupid people have to pay the high price of being stupid.

 

[k_dawg]

Here, that would constitute several felony charges.

This was a very serious event, and I would require that both the professor *AND* the students in question under go a firearm safety training seminar.

I am sure there is a local NRA certified instructor who would be willing to give them one.

 

[trinydex]

if a kid got shot with a real gun while brandishing a fake one....

wouldn't there be more ammunition for the antis?

pointing at a cop and getting killed is one thing. pointing at a civilian and getting shot is another. one that would only make the antis feel more insecure and reaffirm that gun owners are paranoid and trigger happy.

 

[conw]

trinydex,

wouldn't there be more ammunition for the antis?

Pun noted. But first off, this didn't happen in this particular case (thankfully), so it's all rhetorical. This type of thing has happened before, with both police and non-police responding to what seemed like a threat in various given cases, and the individuals are generally found to have been acting competently with the information they possessed at the time. Do you think someone who robs a bank with threat of death with a real weapon is justifiably shot if it's in self-defense? If so, what's different if they used an airsoft gun and no one knew? Nothing's different. It goes to follow, then, that a fake weapon used irresponsibly is the same as a real weapon used irresponsibly when it comes to self defense against such situations.

This is fodder for another thread altogether, really. But frankly I think that your view on police use-of-force needs scrutinizing. Police are not and should not be allowed to use their firearms differently from non-police. Their firearms are for defense of their own lives and those in the vicinity, same as a CCW owner. If a LEO was justified in shooting, a CCW/firearm owner would have been justified in shooting, except in the rare cases where a fleeing actor is judged by the LEO to be a dangerous threat and LEOs choose to render the threat null with lethal force.*

Outside of the ability to pass that kind of judgment on a situation, a cop's gun serves the same purpose as a non-cop's. There are situations where police use the gun for leverage, but the actual purpose of the gun is reactive and defensive. Get that in your head. The mechanics and legalities may be slightly different, as police tend to be more engaged in dangerous situations than non-police, but the core purpose of carrying and using the weapon should, in most situations, be identical. If you would like to begin a semantic discussion on the use of force by cops vs non-cops, put it in Legal and I will respond there.

*I emboldened these selections because it is the most obvious difference between a police officer and a CCW holder's privileges and I feel this is what people will think of first. It's in bold so you'll notice it. Also, let me note that I am glad I don't have the onus of judging a fleeing criminal who I feel is dangerous to society. I would use my gun for self-defense or defense of those I love, not for the greater good of society.

 

[conw]

*****, i am replying to your email from yesterday. i would have responded sooner but i have been working from home all day and had planned to reply as i was finishing my work. sorry for the delay.

i do apologize for what you went through. i didn't see the incident but i can certainly understand your concerns. i hope you understand that i would never bring a firearm onto guilford's campus and i certainly would not allow students to a)hold or b) engage in role plays with real weapons. we were simply running through use of force and use of deadly force role plays to assess whether or not such force was justified (based on the law set down by the U.S. Supreme Court.

that being said,we did do the scenarios as a class in front of the library. while the stairs worked so all could see, part of the mistake that i made was running through these in a public place. i should have gone down to the lake where few people are that time of day. i should have also put a sign up of some kind notifying passer-bys of what was occurring. to be honest with you, i didn't think about it and i should have. i'm sorry about that.

regarding the person that flipped around on you, i'll be speaking to my class on monday about it and i will express, at the very least, my deep concerns about his action. it was certainly not my intent for the class to joke around with passer-bys - with what might appear to be a genuine firearm.

i will be on campus for a short time tomorrow (8am-9:25am) and i would be more than happy to sit down and speak to you in person. if that time does not work, then we can set up an appointment for early next week.

so again, i'm sorry this happened and i assure you that i understand your concerns and how you felt at that moment.

****

****,

Hey, no problem. I think it was a bad set of circumstances. I really appreciate the apology, and I want you to know that I am more relieved, than anything, that nothing bad happened as a result of this. It could actually be a lesson for the class, if you so chose to use it, on how a situation can turn volatile quickly.

As I said, I am very open to firearms; I believe that if your students had been exposed to guns sooner, perhaps by their parents, and educated on their proper use (which includes training accessories like the inert revolver) this incident would have been averted. It's a shame that peoples' aversion to firearms often results in their ignorance of and even misuse of them. This phenomenon seems particularly likely at ********, where there's a stigma toward and bias against gun ownership.

Tomorrow is not a convenient time to meet, but any day next week around 11am would work for me.

Thanks again.
***** ******

PS: I would actually be curious to know the "verdict" of the class on the use of force. Was this scenario with regard to law enforcement officers or everyone?

The first is his reply and the second is my reply to that. I am glad that this was resolved in this way, and I feel satisfied that he is going to do something about it.

 

[trinydex]

This is fodder for another thread altogether, really. But frankly I think that your view on police use-of-force needs scrutinizing. Police are not and should not be allowed to use their firearms differently from non-police. Their firearms are for defense of their own lives and those in the vicinity, same as a CCW owner. If a LEO was justified in shooting, a CCW/firearm owner would have been justified in shooting, except in the rare cases where a fleeing actor is judged by the LEO to be a dangerous threat and LEOs choose to render the threat null with lethal force.*

i agree with this. i just don't think the antis do, which given our current media climate... is only oging to hurt the cause.

 

[conw]

Respectfully, I disagree with that sentiment as applied to this case. It isn't getting media coverage, and certainly isn't going to change any minds in the administration here. Whether it would have if it had gone public would have been purely hypothetical, and I decline to speculate on that.

Have a good one.

 

[Crunker1337]

Wow, that must have been scary. Anyway, good work on the letter, and my God, I hope the fool that did that never, ever does it again around anyone else.

 

[TheFringe]

Quote:
*****, i am replying to your email from yesterday. i would have responded sooner but i have been working from home all day and had planned to reply as i was finishing my work. sorry for the delay.

i do apologize for what you went through. i didn't see the incident but i can certainly understand your concerns. i hope you understand that i would never bring a firearm onto guilford's campus and i certainly would not allow students to a)hold or b) engage in role plays with real weapons. we were simply running through use of force and use of deadly force role plays to assess whether or not such force was justified (based on the law set down by the U.S. Supreme Court.

that being said,we did do the scenarios as a class in front of the library. while the stairs worked so all could see, part of the mistake that i made was running through these in a public place. i should have gone down to the lake where few people are that time of day. i should have also put a sign up of some kind notifying passer-bys of what was occurring. to be honest with you, i didn't think about it and i should have. i'm sorry about that.

regarding the person that flipped around on you, i'll be speaking to my class on monday about it and i will express, at the very least, my deep concerns about his action. it was certainly not my intent for the class to joke around with passer-bys - with what might appear to be a genuine firearm.

i will be on campus for a short time tomorrow (8am-9:25am) and i would be more than happy to sit down and speak to you in person. if that time does not work, then we can set up an appointment for early next week.

so again, i'm sorry this happened and i assure you that i understand your concerns and how you felt at that moment.

****



The instructor states in his first response that he "would never bring a firearm onto Guilford's campus and certainly not allow students to engage in role play with real weapons." If the class was not using a 'real' weapon, then why the Sam Hill would he then consider relocating this charade closer to a lake with few onlookers present and/or putting up signs notifying passer-bys what was occurring !

-Notice he does not relate to you exactly WHAT was being used for the class (and exactly what the student was brandishing at you.) I thereby find his response incomplete. Okay, they weren't using a 'real' gun. So the student was brandishing a banana ?

I think you need to stress to this buffoon that you had a gun brandished at you. Not a banana, not a squirt gun, but a realistic appearing weapon. I don't care if he puts up signs, relocates to the lake, or moves his class to a van on down by the river; never brandish anything that even resembles a firearm on campus. Here we have grade school students expelled for popping an aspirin in class or drawing pictures of guns, and this campus features a class of jackasses pointing guns and playing cops and robbers in full view of others with no ramifications.

 

[Kind of Blued]

So who was this that replied to your e-mail?

Is this some sort of authority figure at an educational institution that doesn't understand proper grammar?



Maybe his 'shift' and 'caps lock' keys are broken? I would have noted that so as to not look stupid.