Students assaulted at my campus.

[sernv99]

Sernv You have your facts wrong. Cho was an American citizen. He bought his gun, and filled out the proper paperwork. His psych profile was a secret, and he lied about it on his forms.

He took his citizenship oath before the massacre? Please provide a source for this.

His records weren't divulged to the NICS due to state law, hence why Bush signed the legislation that the NRA supported that revamped the way mental health records are divulged to the NICS. It is not a "new" law but enforces a previous law.

 

[inclinebench]

He was born in the US. He had been evaluated by the university medical staff at the Schiffert health center and they said he was nuts. Keep em coming, I am pretty well informed on this case.

 

[sernv99]

He was born in the US. He had been evaluated by the university medical staff at the Schiffert health center and they said he was nuts. Keep em coming, I am pretty well informed on this case

yeah right. He was born in Korea. Even if you google it, plenty of sources stating he was born in Korea and was a perm. resident. Nice try.

 

[sernv99]

I'll add insult to injury to inclinebench's ego:

http://www.biography.com/notorious/crimefiles.do?action=view&profileId=260618&catId=259458


pretty much an unbiased source, keep e'm coming buddy

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

oh no!!!! I'm a perm resident!!! That adds to the danger of me having a gun on campus! Thank god you are here to inform me of how irresponsible I am because I am a student and how I shouldn't have a gun because I am only a perm. resident which raises the chances of me shooting everyone!!!!!

you are welcome to your opinion the same as any other man, that doesn't mean you'll sound smart when you decide to share it though.

 

[indoorsoccerfrea]

ok so lets do away with the VT shootings, no disrespect to those who died or those who lost loved ones, but i get a feeling the discussion relating to VT is a little out of hand.
New question!

What are legal ramifications of allowing carry on campus? someone mentioned the school being sued in the event of a shooting. would the school be required to provide small safes to those who do carry? give me other framework for what could be a "reasonable" carry law permitting carry on campus.

 

[metallic]

I would advocate changing the law to require safes in dorm rooms and school apartments for people that live on campus. The student would be required to provide these out of their own pockets. There's usually a ton of people going in and out of dorm rooms.

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

at CSU I cannot carry into any of the Federal buildings on campus or into the dorms. Students with guns that live in the dorms have to check them in at the CSUPD station. Guns on campus is fine, guns in the dorms is not by CSU's policy.

 

[metallic]

at CSU I cannot carry into any of the Federal buildings on campus or into the dorms. Students with guns that live in the dorms have to check them in at the CSUPD station. Guns on campus is fine, guns in the dorms is not by CSU's policy.

How does that impact the ability of students to carry?

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

when they wake up in the dorms they have to walk all the ways to the campus police station to retrieve their weapon. then before they go back to their room they have to go back to CSUPD to store their gun again. Other than that no other impediment is put on students wanting to carry. There aren't many 21 year olds living in the dorms, so this effects very few people. I personally don't know any students that live in the dorms that own guns.

 

[rainbowbob]

21 as an age for CCW? Yes, sure. A 21 year old going to college, on campus, CCW'ing? No.

OK. Thanks for clarifying, sernv99.

So that is a question we can discuss.

Is there a fundamental difference between a 21-year-old person carrying a concealed weapon everywhere it is legal to do so - and a 21-year-old person carrying a concealed weapon on campus?

If so...what IS that fundamental difference?

 

[NotSoFast]

After the reports of shootings again today, I have to agree that "gun free zones" are the most attractive spots for mass killers to get their jollies by shooting people made defenseless by the law. This is just a harbinger of what can happen if we lose our right to bear arms.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

What are legal ramifications of allowing carry on campus? someone mentioned the school being sued in the event of a shooting. would the school be required to provide small safes to those who do carry? give me other framework for what could be a "reasonable" carry law permitting carry on campus.

[SARCASM]What are legal ramifications of allowing carry in Wal-Mart? someone mentioned Wal-Mart being sued in the event of a shooting. would Wal-Mart be required to provide small safes to those who do carry? give me other framework for what could be a "reasonable" carry law permitting carry in Wal-Mart.[/SARCASM]

When the law allows concealed carry, the general tendency is for those stores and entities the forbid carry to be liable if customers are killed or injured in a crime, since the store or entity has deprived the customers of the means of self-defense.

 

[j-easy]

ageism and discrimination at its finest, what i don't understand is that it is accepted to discriminate against young adults (drinking age, ccw) because it "saves lives" and "statistics show blah blah" yet there are also statistics saying people of "xyz" race commit homicide 7 times as often as another race, and laws against them are interpreted as unconstitutional and have been struck down. bottom line its discrimination. an adult US citizen should be granted full rights regardless of age, sex, race or whatever

 

[Adam2340]

Same argument, different venue

I'm a medical student, and I cannot carry while attending classes because they're on campus. I often find myself leaving late at night/early morning, and having to walk a few blocks off campus to reach my car, alone and disarmed.

Do you think that myself, and other grad and professional students like me, shouldn't be allowed to carry and defend ourselves because of untested fears about what may happen if some theoretically immature people were allowed to possess a concealed weapon on campus?

Me too (class of 2010, probably Ophtho/Eye dentistry). I always thought it was the ultimate in hypocrisy that we have to give up our right to self defense in order to help people.

On another note, I managed a Pub on an undergrad campus (Gods, Mythical Beings, Cheap Beer was our motto), so I too have have lots of experience with 18-22 year old college students. My vote is that they have the maturity to get a ccw and carry off campus, then they can on campus as well. It's illegal to drink and carry already. Why add more laws to the mix? In theory in this country, we don't punish people for what they could do. We don't cut people's tongues out because they COULD yell fire in a crowded theater.

//Ruger LCP fits in scrubs rather well

 

[Kleanbore]

Its actually very smart to not allow guns on campus. Like it or not, if you allow them and some one gets shot( even if its a true accident) the College will be sued. If you forbid them, you "dodge that bullet"

Do you have a basis for that assertion?

 

[sernv99]

Do you have a basis for that assertion?


read this:

http://www.villagevoice.com/2003-08-19/news/a-seven-year-ricochet&page=70

if you unload on a "rampaging killer" on campus and you accidently shoot an innocent bystander, guess who is paying their medical costs?? Either you or the school. I doubt you make enough money to pay to go to court, go through all the litigation, pay medical costs if the court finds you at fault, etc. There are "Good Samiritan" laws but they vary by jurisdiction and vary by definition from place to place.

just google for stories about people suing the cops and other folks for shooting injuries, intentional or by accident. At least if it was LE on campus who accidently shot an innocent bystander, either through ricochet or some other way, the school can at least put the blame on the LE organization (if it was the college's own LE unit, the college would be held liable).

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

Well what you consider smart baffles me. So, you are saying it is better to not be allowed guns and have everyone shot and killed than have to worry about a what if scenario of another student being shot by the CCW. To you money is more important than human life by that statement that "it is smart"

Just out of curiosity did you ever even go to university? You seen to be out of touch with what today's students are and I find it hard to believe that you ever did go and if you did it must have been decades and decades ago, because you are describing a college scene or irresponsibility that just does not exist in the main stream.

 

[Brian Dale]

...ever been around a bunch of 18-22 years old on a large college campus? Why add guns to the mix.
{...}
I disagree, I don't see how "maturity" increases significantly over the course of 2 years, i.e. 19 to 21.
{...}
I'm against non-US citizens from obtaining or possessing any firearms or ammunition.

The posts that you've made in this thread depend on the premise that it's somehow up to you to allow or forbid others to be able to defend themselves. It is the same view that has been prevalent in most states' discussions of "shall issue" concealed carry.

That premise has been refuted over and over, all across the country.

Correct me if I am wrong. There seems to be three types of opinions here.

1) All college kids old enough should be able to carry on campus.

2) All college kids are not mature enough and should not be allowed to carry on campus.

3) Most college kids are immature, and while there are also many who should be able to carry, how can you separate the mature from the immature.

I'll add this one:
4) Fundamental human rights do not depend on whether someone is a student or not, on a campus or not, and state legislatures should stop infringing on them.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

And I'll add another:

5) Those same kids can carry off campus. And I defy anyone to show that they are causing problems when they do.

 

[SpecialKalltheway]

Originally Posted by sernv99
"I'm against non-US citizens from obtaining or possessing any firearms or ammunition."

I just love how I am your worst nightmare. I am a student that carries a gun to school and I am not a citizen of the U.S. I'm going to make an alliance with the boogeyman and go after all the kiddies regardless of age. ohhhh booogie boogie boogie ohhhhhhh boogie boogie boogie.

You have failed to give one ounce of reason as to why these two things should not be.

You also fail to realize that guns, ammo and getting a CCW all cost money. Most college students couldn't even afford the gun let alone pay for the class and fees to get a CCW, remember they are to busy spending all that money on drinking and being irresponsible according to you. Wouldn't you think that a student that is financially responsible enough to obtain his CCW would be responsible enough to keep his gun out of reach of those who are not?

 

[metallic]

You also fail to realize that guns, ammo and getting a CCW all cost money.

Between my Kimber, training and licensing fees, I think I'm already up to around $1400 spent on carrying. And I still have to spend another $180 or so on a holster and a belt. So said and done... nearly $1600 to carry. There's no way I could have afforded that while in college.

 

[RP88]

the rules in general in any college - gun-related or not - is more than enough reason to not live on campus.

For example, at my campus, and others I've visited for friends:
-being out past midnight = you don't get into even your own room
-only being able to sign in one person to visit you
-no alcohol regardless of age in dorms or on campus is a general rule I've seen
-'noise level' rules
-not being allowed to go up to other floors in certain buildings due to co-ed stuff/not being able to have a friend or significant other stay in your room for the night in some places

I mean, seriously. Don't stay on-campus. And if you do, learn to goose-walk salute past the RA's office. I didn't look forward to getting out of high school just to go through it again

 

[Brian Dale]

I just love how I am your worst nightmare. I am a student that carries a gun to school and I am not a citizen of the U.S. I'm going to make an alliance with the boogeyman and go after all the kiddies regardless of age. ohhhh booogie boogie boogie ohhhhhhh boogie boogie boogie.

You rock.

 

[Kleanbore]

if you unload on a "rampaging killer" on campus and you accidently shoot an innocent bystander, guess who is paying their medical costs??

Interesting hypothetical question. Doesn't begin to address mine.

I asked for a basis for the assertions "if you allow them [i.e., if the school does not forbid CCW] and some one gets shot( even if its a true accident) the College will be sued" and "If you forbid them, you 'dodge that bullet' ."