hoardingthemanual
Member
Free tax stamp through SilencerShop
Braced Pistol stamp Watch Thread
- Thread starter WestKentucky
- Start date
Free tax stamp through SilencerShop
sevt_chevelle
Member
So couple more questions for those that know.
Started filling out the form on silencer shop.
Was thinking since I have a trust for my silencer, I could just add the 3 pistols to that trust. Their form wants verified proof of ownership prior to Jan 2023.
Wondering what proof I needed I called and talked to one of the reps. According to them, although I the individual owned said pistols prior to Jan, since they were not listed in my trust I can not add them to the trust unless I pay the 200 tax.
He made it seem like the only option I have to file all 3 as an individual.
Does that sound right?
Can I do what SS calls a single shot trust for these guns? I forgot to ask that question.
Last question.
Can I own multiple uppers for each lower?
Are is owning multiple uppers intent on making unregistered SBRs?
Thanks
Started filling out the form on silencer shop.
Was thinking since I have a trust for my silencer, I could just add the 3 pistols to that trust. Their form wants verified proof of ownership prior to Jan 2023.
Wondering what proof I needed I called and talked to one of the reps. According to them, although I the individual owned said pistols prior to Jan, since they were not listed in my trust I can not add them to the trust unless I pay the 200 tax.
He made it seem like the only option I have to file all 3 as an individual.
Does that sound right?
Can I do what SS calls a single shot trust for these guns? I forgot to ask that question.
Last question.
Can I own multiple uppers for each lower?
Are is owning multiple uppers intent on making unregistered SBRs?
Thanks
Sistema1927
Member
Silencer Shop was correct. For some strange reason, ATF decided that you could only hold these tax exempt SBRs in a trust if they were already in a trust prior to the publication of the final rule. If you want to avoid the $200, you have to register them as an individual.
sevt_chevelle
Member
Thanks.
That's what I thought.
Any idea on having multiple uppers per lower?
That's what I thought.
Any idea on having multiple uppers per lower?
Sistema1927
Member
Not a problem at all. Once you have your approval, treat it like any other SBR.
sevt_chevelle
Member
Filed 2 form 1 last night. Now the wait begins again.
N555
Member
Mine took 5 to 6 weeks but I'm a paying customer and it was for a keltech p50.
hoardingthemanual
Member
Received second and final approval today. Submitted 3/29, approved 5/8. It took 27 business days, 39 days including weekends. Free tax stamp through SilencerShop. I had different examiners both times.
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Sistema1927
Member
My two were also submitted 3/29 through Silencer Shop. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Bosn Ski
Member
Three submitted on 3/25…
ID-shooting
Member
I officially hit day 90, and still counting on two of the three. Submitted 2/8 (self e-file). At this rate, my paper form 4 will come back before these do. The tin-foil side of me wonders if they are waiting till after the end of the month, come up with some BS reason not to approve then say sorry, open registration is closed.
Bosn Ski
Member
Oh great…something else to worry about!
Mine was submitted 2/12, it makes me wonder if that examiner is on vacation.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
submitted two under the brace ruling ( one is a 5.56mm and another in 9mm) on Feb 6th 2023 within minutes of each other.
The 9mm was approved on May 5th 2023 08:49hrs (88 days). Still waiting on the 5.56mm ( @ 93 days and counting)
The 9mm was approved on May 5th 2023 08:49hrs (88 days). Still waiting on the 5.56mm ( @ 93 days and counting)
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Sgt_Mike1
Member
you might be very well right....
I tried to read whom the examiner's name on my form to no avail so we as a group could maybe explore that theory . So I cant honestly say whom signed my approval.
But looking over the form and the method that they (ATF) has filled out the forms. Caused my retired Military mind to engage in gear leaving me with a couple of suspicions and thoughts on why they filled out the forms in the manner in which they did.
"APPROVED WITH CONDITIONS - SEE CONDITIONS ON THE LAST PAGE OF PDF" then scrolling to the last page to read the conditions. "Pursuant to ATF Final Rule 2021R-08F."
Now taking those two into account and that very last verbiage on the last page, I am left with the following thoughts that the following apply.
1. It is a blanket statement to explain to any agent why no tax was collected, and no stamp affixed by the Attorney general's order allowing a tax free registration.
2. It also will explain why NO makers mark will be required versus a tax paid form 1 which will normally be required to be marked.
3. If the Applicant desires at a latter date to remove the affected Firearm from a title 2 (NFA) to a title 1 (non-NFA) status they may return it to a true pistol format excluding a pistol brace, if desired. Thus preventing confusion of the prohibition of rifle to pistol, as the affected firearm was only determined to be a SBR (with a brace) on the date of the final rule. But prior was classified as a pistol and as such should allow it to be returned to it's original state minus any brace.
Now all that is just a thought that really doesn't require more conversation unless of course something in my thought/opinions are incorrect. While my post is a drift in the thread, the intent was not to cause any further drift.
Sistema1927
Member
Yours is a coherent, and well reasoned, post. Too bad you don't work for the ATF.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
ATF Answer is here
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/can-i-register-my-firearm-“stabilizing-brace”-my-trust
or here:
https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/final-rule-2021r-08f
Seems some Lawyer decided to address this here is his response:
https://johnpierceesq.com/documenting-assignment-of-your-arm-brace-pistol-to-your-trust/
another source :
https://altmanassociates.net/legislative-alert-transferring-certain-firearms-into-your-gun-trust/
MY thoughts is that really only a listing (attachment or Annex) Trust showing the date the pistol with serial number etc was assigned to the trust prior to the date that the attorney General signed the final Rule. I would suspect that the annex with a notary seal prior to the date of the final rule would be the best option. How ever I DO NOT KNOW if that assignment must be notarized or just annotated and dated for approval.
But the fact that you are bringingthis up this late in the game. Makes me Pretty sure that that your's was not assigned to your trust prior to signing of the final rule.
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sevt_chevelle
Member
Yep correct, not in the trust. And I believe thousands or maybe even millions of pistols were not put into a trust prior to the rule.
Why would you put a perfectly legal item into a trust?
Personally, I believe it wasn't an oversight but done purposely.
dogtown tom
Member
This isn't due to the rule, its always been that way. An SBR is only an SBR when configured as such.
Mauser lover
Member
All forms turned in on 3/27
1. Self-manufactured arms were marked as "submitted" instead of "pending research" on 5/3. Still waiting on approval.
2. Commercial arms were returned as "Approved" on 5/10, 5/11. That's 44 or 45 days, if I counted right, and counting weekends.
Hope that's helpful to someone.
1. Self-manufactured arms were marked as "submitted" instead of "pending research" on 5/3. Still waiting on approval.
2. Commercial arms were returned as "Approved" on 5/10, 5/11. That's 44 or 45 days, if I counted right, and counting weekends.
Hope that's helpful to someone.
Bosn Ski
Member
Received an approval on 12 May 2023 for 1 of 3 eForm1s submitted through Silencer Shop. ATF Official Kirk B. _ynor could b a T.
Submitted 25 March 2023. Two more are pending, all three were entered same (early) morning with a 20 minute average completion time and a 7 digit spread on the control numbers.
Submitted 25 March 2023. Two more are pending, all three were entered same (early) morning with a 20 minute average completion time and a 7 digit spread on the control numbers.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
welll Patrick Wiggins approved the 5.56 for me today ..... 99 days so the two that I was the most concerned with are completed.
Sgt_Mike1
Member
Tom my point was that on 12th of January 2023 and earlier the Pistol with a Brace was a Pistol. On the 13th January that same pistol without modification of removing the brace became a SBR.
What I was addressing is that the Firearm was A PISTOL originally and IF someone wanted to surrender the approval form and remove it from the registry they should be able return it to a Pistol Less the Brace.
What I pointing at is that IT was A PISTOL first therefore it could return to a pistol. unlike a rifle which cannot be made into a pistol.
Your correct has nothing to do the Rule HAS EVERYTHING to do with it was a PISTOL First.
its no different than those that owned Remington XP-100 and put a stock and a 16" barrel on them. As they started life as a pistol they are legal to convert back to pistol.
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