Break In -- What do you do?

[Crosswind81]

Years ago our home alarm went off about 3 in the am, waking me out of a dead slumber. At that time I had no guns in the house so I grab my pocket knife and proceed to clear the house...whitie tighties and all. In just a few short minutes I find a back door blown open from the wind while still locked telling me that it was not quite pushed all the way closed. I secure the alarm and go to tell the kids and Mom to go back to bed, false alarm...guess what? I was the only one awake with a 120 decibels or more blasting the house! I thought.. how absurd that here I am ready to engage in a knife fight in my undies and no one else bothers to wake up! Thought yall might enjoy that story!

I am now much more ready for the real deal if ever it were to happen...but while tactically I understand it is better to stand pat and wait, I don't think my personality would allow that...I am inclined to clear my home best I can. Put me down for knowing better but not hunkering.

Maybe I should think this thing out some more....

 

[Sam1911]

Maybe I should think this thing out some more....

Wisest part of the whole story.

Remember, the folks who receive the most training in clearing houses -- and the folks who practice it most often/regularly as part of their duties or study -- all report that clearing a house by yourself is an UTTERLY losing effort. The fixed position defender has great advantages. The moving "house clearer" gives them all away and faces any intruders present on a less-than-equal footing.

(E.g: He may be out numbered, he may be outgunned, and he has to evaluate the potential targets he finds to determine what the target is (bad guy?, neighbor?, kid?, the dog?, bad guy?, grandpa?) and if he can legally shoot. Unfortunately, the violent criminals who (may be) in his home don't face that question and can shoot a anything or anyone they feel might threaten them.)

In the end, even when "all things are equal," when "good guys" go stalking through a structure "clearing it" of bad guys -- THEY LOSE. (Lose ... as in catch a paint round if it's Simunitions. Or a bullet if its for real.)

 

[Boothdt]

"There's no one fast hard rule; and, while a dogmatic response might sound good on the internet, in real life you've got to remain a lot more fluid."


My sentiments exactly. It's never bad to play the "what if?" game and be prepared for everything you can think of, but "even the best laid plans of mice and men...". Situations like that are extrememly dynamic and you need to be as well. It never hurts to have contigency plans but you have to be able to adapt to what you weren't expecting or weren't prepared for.

 

[Ole Coot]

Wife call 911 on cell phone, located on my nightstand with 45, tac light & Winchester 1300 with 7rds of 00 buck. Alarms, motion detectors and lights should be on and the dog is loose, only the two of us so we stay put as the bedroom is on the upper floor, distant end of the house. The bedroom is the safe room upstairs. Windows low enough to exit from if necessary and high enough to need a ladder. In this state an intruder is paid for.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Maybe I should think this thing out some more....

A couple of inexpensive Airsoft spring pistols, a couple of sets of basic protective gear, and a family member or friend to roleplay the 'bad guy' will probably answer any questions you still have about the wisdom of solitary house clearing pretty clearly. Airsoft doesn't hurt as much as Simunitions, but it still hurts.

Needless to say, any real firearms in the household should be safely stored for the duration of any exercise like this.

lpl

 

[txhoghunter]

Okay so if I (and perhaps a wife) are the only ones in thr house and in a bedroom, 99% of the time it is best to stay put, call 911, and wait for the intruder from a place of cover.

However, for those of you with children. Would you grab your kids and bring them to your bedroom, or would you and your spouse make your way to your kids and set up a position with them, thereby keeping from having to move through your house with your kids?

 

[txhoghunter]

I'm not trying to hijack this thread, I just feel that this is the next logical situation to consider with most households having children at one point or another.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Would you grab your kids and bring them to your bedroom, or would you and your spouse make your way to your kids and set up a position with them, thereby keeping from having to move through your house with your kids?

It depends. How defensible is the kid's room. How difficult will it be to get back to yours. I'd be inclined everything else being equal to staying put.

 

[ChCx2744]

I choose C. Also, option C already gives you an advantage over your enemy.

As a side note (Though not recommended) take a flashlight to your bathroom in the dark and shine it at your face at the mirror. Yeah. That will bring an intruder's hands directly to his face, and that way they take their eyes off you and raise their hands, revealing if they are carrying anything; if so, keep squeezing until they disappear from your front sight.

 

[Fred Fuller]

tx,

Of course, your actions will differ depending on the floor plan of your home, the age of your children and multiple other factors. But as a general rule, the less you move around the house when an intruder is actually present the better off you'll be.

There needs to be a well thought out home defense plan in place. I've often suggested the NRA's Basic Personal Protection In The Home class (see http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx ) as a good place to learn how to go about setting up such a plan, as well as how to execute it if necessary. I was certified to instruct that class for a while and am a firm believer in the principles outlined there. If you don't have a class nearby, see http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=ES 26840 for a DVD of the classroom portion of the class.

lpl

 

[USAF_Vet]

I have two young kids on the other side of the house. I also have two big dogs who are well behaved enough to bark only if someone is at the door, and have a different sounding bark for play and warning. I do keep a 12ga in the closet for HD purposes (empty chamber, hammer back, slide locked, safety on) right above my level III body armor. I can have these on and ready from a dead sleep in the dark in ~45 seconds, much less if I forego the vest. I have played this scenario out in training. I don't live in such a horrible neighborhood where break ins occur regularly, but there have been a lot of vandalism, thefts, and at least one break in. The break-in happened to my next door neighbor, so I got serious after that.

When I get my tax returns, I'm getting at least one hand gun, but I still prefer my 12ga for HD. Anyway, in a real time situation, I would risk option A, because I know I'd take the risk to defend my kids. I'd gear up, arm my wife with a hand gun, take the shotgun, and go. I've been in combat situations in Iraq, so I feel at least a little more prepared than the average joe. Also, it's my house, so I've got the advantage, knowing the layout of my house better than anyone who might happen to break in.

Option A would be my first pick, provided everyone is at home. Not gonna hunker down and leave the kids to fend for themselves, just not gonna do it.

Option B is out, because I've never done any kind of training with the wife.

Option C would be my first choice if the kids were not home, which isn't that often.

Option D is out, I don't know if anyone else is outside, and Michigan has a pretty clear Castle Doctrine in place, with no duty to retreat clause.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by USAF_Vet: Not gonna hunker down and leave the kids to fend for themselves, just not gonna do it.

No one responsibly recommends letting the kids end for themselves. The universal recommendation is to get loved ones to safety and to then get into a defensible position. While one is doing that, he or she is of course vulnerable, but it is something that has to be done.

...it's my house, so I've got the advantage, knowing the layout of my house better than anyone who might happen to break in.

You have that advantage, but the person in a defensive position still has the advantage that he knows where to shoot. Which is the greater advantage? Trainers on the THR staff have demonstrated in simulation and roleplaying that, even with the so called home field advantage, venturing forth to clear the house is tantamount to suicide.

Plenty on that in old threads--you may search for a lot on it.

 

[1stmarine]

I agree with Kleanbore.
In defensive training you learn to adopt defensive position and use anything for cover. Also learn how to shoot while you move for cover not after you get cover. Put your love ones in a safe place and forget about 'clearing the house'.
Let the police do that for you later if necessary. If you can get your loved ones out and yourself out of that situation do it ASAP. Run away with everyone from the house if you can.
Use your gun to defend and do not engage in any tactics that will acquire new risks. Eliminate risks vs. acquire a new ones.
Even if something is stolen from the house it is not worth anybody's life whether is the criminal's or, of course, even yours.

Train for this scenarios over and over in defensive shooting training. You might have to change something in your house so you have a drill and a plan but always moving away from danger vs. towards danger.

Look in your town for clubs with training and with organized squads and you will be surprised how much you learn from yourself and from other folks to stay safe. Sometimes retired police and military. You will be ready and you will have fun every week. It is a win win at the end of the day.

Also good shooting skills is a perishable skill and you have to keep doing it.

Cheers,
E.

 

[Bullet]

You're in bed and are jarred awake by your spouse shaking you saying someone is in the house.
You grab your gun, get your spouse behind cover and...

My idea is to not be put in this position to begin with. I’m still working on making sure no one will be able to break in through my front or back doors quietly or quickly, I have two dogs. one big one and one small one that I believe would warn me if someone made any noise trying to gain entrance and probably especially the big dogs bark would make the BG leave as fast as possible or give up entering. I also believe the dogs would let me know where the BG was trying to enter.

I think it would be better if the BG didn’t gain entrance into my house to begin with but if the above didn’t work I’d vote for C Stay hunkered down with your spouse and dial 911.

I also think this is a good idea -

How will the police get in...?

Well, for one, have a house key attached to one of those light sticks so you can toss it out the window at night to LE. This should be planned while on the 911 call also give your location if your hunkerin' down in one room. Another suggestion might be to have a small laminated sketch of the floor plan of your home attached to the light stick as well with an 'X" marking your location as LE clears your home.

 

[fallout mike]

I've been in the home security business for close to 15 years. I've secured peoples homes roughly 6500 times the day after the break in alone.62.4% of all breakins occur during the working hours of the day.96% of all breakins are through the back door. The people I know that died during a regular run of the mill breakin/home invasion is 0. I know people and of people that have died but it was bc of some vendetta against them. You never know what u are dealing with. If you have a family then you need a safe room in your house to hole up in. Or I can put you a video surveillance system in that will alert you and you can be waiting on them to step in.

 

[sappnasty]

I've got a split plan house....My wife and I on one side and two little ones on the other. My plan is she calls 911 while I grab my duty pistol...then clear the house killing anything and everything that doesn't belong between my room and my kids. If nothing in between, grab the kiddies and secure the wife and kids in the bathroom giving my wife the 12 gauge. Then I finish clearing the house until there is no longer a threat...maybe even check the perimeter of my house just to make sure. That's what I would hope we could do. But then again, when the <deleted> hits the fan....sight picture and squeeze until the threat is down.

 

[Bullet]

fallout mike

I can put you a video surveillance system in that will alert you and you can be waiting on them to step in.

A video surveillance system sounds great but there are so many and I don’t know enough about them. Any recommendations for a person wanting to install a system themselves?

 

[yooper_sjd]

1. I keep a 9mm in easy access holster mounted bedside...reach down and I am armed.
2. Dogs will be going nutz at point of breach entry, buying me precious time.
3. Wife has side arm in night table drawer
4. I head to gun cabinet to retrieve Mossburg .12 ga. And head for point of breach/dogs location
5. wife hunkers down with her own sidearm and calls 911. (live out in country, response time is about 15-20 min)
6. If it comes down to shots fired. All my surrounding neighbors are armed as well, and will respond in kind. Have done so before myself with the neighbors.


Yoop

 

[fallout mike]

Yea Bullet. I order from several places depending on what I need. But if you are not in the business then I would recommend ordering from supercircuits. They can recommend thongs for your application and budget. You can send me a private message of you want specific info. Just tell me what your layout is and most important, your budget. There are massive price ranges in surveillance equipment.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by sappnasty: Then I finish clearing the house until there is no longer a threat...maybe even check the perimeter of my house just to make sure. That's what I would hope we could do.

Well, that does answer the OP's question,

So how would you handle it?

...for at least one person, and we have seen that a few others do seem to agree.

However, it does not address this:

I'm trying to learn things here so if I'm wrong, please inform me of what to do differently.

This question is asked time and again, and there are always those who seem to believe that grabbing a gun and going after the source of a worrisome sound is the thing to do, as if the gun will somehow prevent them from being ambushed, or make them invulnerable to gunfire. However, the overwhelming weight of informed opinion indicates that that is usually not the thing to do, after one's loved ones are in a place of safety.

In post #79, I referred to the fact that one's knowing the layout of his own home has not proven to offset the tactical disadvantage that one assumes when he leaves a position of safety.

In response to this,

But, my house that I live in, and know where I know every stick of furniture, every nook and and every cranny? That I've walked and rehearsed the scenario countless times such that I can do it literally blind folded, and that I own? Well that one I'm going to clear.

...hso posted this on THR last year:

I helped teach a defensive handgun course that involved a shoot house and simunition. I knew every little angle and hiddey-hole in the place because I helped build it and I "lived" in it over and over again as the BG in the scenarios. The lead instructor and I would sometimes act as home invaders in scenarios instead of BGs already in the house waiting for the homeowner to come hunting through the place. Even though it was "our" house we would find ourselves taking hits because there just is no way to cover all the angles by yourself. Regardless of whether you know the position of ever stick of furniture and every shadow there just isn't any way to pick LEFT and RIGHT at the same time as your FIRST direction to look. The idea that you can safely clear your own home by yourself is self delusion. Try running a shoot house sometime and then try to make it through with someone unfamiliar with the place in it. It's sobering.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6569071&postcount=70

This is one of dozens of similar posts from trainers, people who have taken FoF training in the subject, and sworn officers whose duties have includes clearing structures.

One can find them by searching here on THR and on The Firing Line.

Should one still insist that he knows better, or that his skills are far superior to those of others, and should he or she not want to invest in relevant FoF training using simunitions, an investment in a few Airsoft guns and some role playing should prove very enlightening.

That would be a lot better than finding out while using real bullets, I think.

The idea of putting in a video surveillance system is a good one. A properly thought out system could confirm whether or not there is anyone in the house and possibly identify them, allow one to communicate where they are to first responders, and provide a heads up regarding whether and when shooting is about to be required.

 

[Observer]

None of the above.

Simply clear the house. It may have been nothing and if it were LEO are reactive not proactive. Protect you family first!

If actual intruders exist season to taste!

 

[Sam1911]

Simply clear the house.

"Simply?" What elevates your ability to do so above that of the trained professionals who say THEY couldn't/wouldn't do it alone successfully?

It may have been nothing and if it were LEO are reactive not proactive.

As we've said many times, the ONLY time the risk of house clearing is "reasonable" is if there was no threat at all to begin with. If a threat did exist, you've inverted your advantages into tremendous risks.

Protect you family first!

Absolutely. And if you have no way of arranging your home so that everything you care enough about to shed blood (yours or someone else's) is within your defensive safe zone, then you may have no choice but to go to them. The question then becomes, do you try to then return to your primary safe zone with them? Thus exposing them (and yourself, again) to the same horrid risks to which you exposed yourself in moving to their position? Or do you try and move both you and your wife to your secondary safe zone at your kids' rooms? A terrible choice to make.

If actual intruders exist season to taste!

With what? Your blood? That seems to be the take home message from those who've studied this. Stay put, concealed, covering a "fatal funnel" approach and stand a good chance of surviving. Go "hunting" for the bad guys and suffer the opposite outcome.

 

[sappnasty]

Kleanbore: Sorry but I guess I did miss the main point of the OP's question. My answer after going back and rereading it is: None of the above. And I am not saying that to be a pain or for the sake of argument. But unfortunately, I am a LEO and sitting in a corner with my family waiting for us all to be blown away is not an option I choose. The reason I say this is because I know from real life experience....and I clear unfamiliar houses on a daily basis (alarm calls with opened doors, homes with forced entry, burglary's in progress, etc.). I can tell you this, unfortunately from a LEO's perspective if the suspect or "subject" lies and waits in a house for us to enter/clear and has the total intention of killing us....as cruddy as it is to say, we don't stand a chance....no matter how tactical you are unless lady luck is on your side.

But like you said, there is way too many angles to cover in a house alone or even with another person. But this also stands true from the good guys perspective: If I am at home and are sure that someone is in, or actively trying to make entry into my home...I set up a point I know I will make contact in the and engage them. Because contrary to popular belief, if a person is brave enough to enter an occupied home...9 times out of ten, there not there to steal you t.v. and x-box. They are intent on something else all together (even though home invasions are exteremely rare). So why would I even give them a chance to get to my family?

And as far as worrying about getting shot, well buddy if someone's in your house you better shoot them before they shoot you. And if they shoot and kill me, my wife knows how to operate a 12 gauge pump if its a last resort. Even with all that said, I DO agree with you. We can sit here all day and say what skills we have and whats the best option to take...but the truth of the matter is, until your there with pistol in hand and a stranger in your home.....you never know how events will unfold until it's actively playing out right in front of your eyes.

Florida has a very concrete Castle doctrine...I say as long as your family is secure and you know of there whereabouts, engage the target and make it safe. And as far as a security system goes...great idea. But I like the giant K-9 theory better!

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by sappnasty: Kleanbore: Sorry but I guess I did miss the main point of the OP's question. My answer after going back and rereading it is: None of the above. And I am not saying that to be a pain or for the sake of argument. But unfortunately, I am a LEO and sitting in a corner with my family waiting for us all to be blown away is not an option I choose.

Nor has anyone offered that as a recommended alternative.

One does not wait for anyone to "be blown away". One waits for the intruder to show himself and shoots him.

The reason I say this is because I know from real life experience....and I clear unfamiliar houses on a daily basis (alarm calls with opened doors, homes with forced entry, burglary's in progress, etc.). I can tell you this, unfortunately from a LEO's perspective if the suspect or "subject" lies and waits in a house for us to enter/clear and has the total intention of killing us....as cruddy as it is to say, we don't stand a chance....no matter how tactical you are unless lady luck is on your side.

That's exactly what hso said, and Mas Ayoob has reported that exercises conducted at the National Tactical Invitational consistently show the same thing. It apples equally to the intruder, should he try to get to the homeowner who waits in a defensive position.

If I am at home and are sure that someone is in, or actively trying to make entry into my home...I set up a point I know I will make contact in the and engage them.

I think we call that letting the threat come to you.....

So why would I even give them a chance to get to my family?

You would not.

I think you did misunderstand the OP's question. His Option C ("Stay hunkered down with your spouse and dial 911") comes only after "You grab your gun", and was presented as an alternative to going out looking for the intruder(s) ("clearing the house") or climbing out a window.

 

[sappnasty]

I think so...lol. Like I said I wasn't arguning or trying to be a pain...But hey that's what forums are for!! You made several valid points that I definately agree with. Fact of the matter is, I prey it never happens to me....and even I know that sometimes even with a P-Car in the driveway that doesn't deter them from being criminals. Maybe even more so. I think one thing I really believe in is making sure that we have a plan (even if it is a loose one) and that my wife can operate and effectively eliminate a threat in the event I am injured or dead. I think that in its self is a hug advantage. Training is really the only key to preparing for a critical incident. Love this thread by the way!