bumpstock ban process

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Some of the things listed above aren’t actually accomplishments or even Presidential actions.

I don’t want to get this thread locked for politics, but it’s important to point all that in a bulleted list not all bullets are of equal weight. If someone starts the ball rolling that eventually leads to a complete semi-auto ban by administrative decree then their other so-called ‘accomplishments’ really won’t matter much.
 
I know.

I was responding to several "They haven't done ANYTHING" posts to relax gun control laws or expand gun rights.

What we need to do is applaud/support what this President has done so far for 2A and prod law makers into further relaxing gun control laws and expanding gun rights while we wait on the SCOTUS to rule on 2A cases.
 
Actually he has done much more than we realize.

Had Hillary won 2016 election, our postings would be more in line with gnashing of teeth and despair as we await doom and gloom from the SCOTUS rulings on 2A.
 
bds said:
Actually he has done much more than we realize.
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"I like taking guns away early."
"Take the guns first, go through due process second."
"...I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun." (From his book The America We Deserve)
"They have less power over me." (Re: the influence of the NRA when discussing new gun control measures post-Parkland)

To hell with Trump.
 
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bds said:
Actually he has done much more than we realize.

Had Hillary won 2016 election, our postings would be more in line with gnashing of teeth and despair as we await doom and gloom from the SCOTUS rulings on 2A.
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That’s what I was saying in #27. They no longer feel any need to support us as they expect our vote out of necessity. Do you want to loose your rights in the next election or just bit by bit every year?

I would say the SCOTUS appointees would be the most important but if they don’t help 2A causes....we’ll they obviously failed on this one.
 
jmorris said:
That’s what I was saying in #27. They no longer feel any need to support us as they expect our vote out of necessity. Do you want to loose your rights in the next election or just bit by bit every year?
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I think this is true of both sides, just with different groups.

Republican candidates try to scare the "base" with all the scary things they say the Democrats would do in office (ban guns, socialism, etc.). They then do nothing much while in office, and say "hey, just think how bad it would be if the Democrats were in control!"

Democrat candidates try to scare the "base" with all the scary things they say the Republicans would do in office (ban unions, fascism, etc.). They then do nothing much while in office, and say "hey, just think how bad it would be if the Republicans were in control!"

Meanwhile an alarming number manage to become millionaires while in office. But we keep voting for them anyway.
 
CLP said:
To hell with Trump.
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The book "The America We Deserve" was published in 2000. A lot has happened since.


Book written 15 years later in 2015, "Crippled America" tells change in Trump's position from gun control to supporting gun rights - https://www.amazon.com/Crippled-America-Great-Hardcover-Donald/dp/B01LB3N1FA

"Opponents of gun rights often use a lot of scary descriptive phrases when proposing legislative action against various types of weapons. Ban 'assault weapons' they say, or 'military-style weapons,' or 'high-capacity magazines,'" he wrote. "Those all do sound a little ominous, until you understand what they are actually talking about are common, popular semiautomatic rifles and standard magazines that are owned and used by tens of millions of Americans."


World Trade Center was destroyed in 2001 and a lot has changed since then.


I would be more interested in how Trump's position has changed and what his position on gun rights and the Second Amendment is now as President. His two sons are pro-2A and active in pro-2A organizations/efforts and over the decades helped influence their father to become pro-2A:

(1/31/2017) President Trump nominates Neil Gorsuch to the SCOTUS. On 6/26/17, Justice Gorsuch joined Justice Thomas and criticized the Supreme Court's decision to not review Peruta v San Diego County - https://cpoa.org/supreme-court-decl...nt-protects-the-right-to-bear-arms-in-public/

(10/2/2017) How Trump turned against gun control - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41478293

Evolution of Trump's position on gun control - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...positions-gun-control-have-evolved/730857001/

His position change since 2000 - http://www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Donald_Trump_Gun_Control.htm

How his position changed to supporting gun rights and supporting the Second Amendment - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/us/politics/trump-evolving-positions-gun-issues.html

(3/12/2018) "Trump’s new position on gun control is starting to look a lot like the NRA’s" - https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...gun-control-proposal-betsy-devos-parkland-nra

(5/4/2018) Trump promises to NRA "I will defend gun rights" - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/04/trump-nra-convention-dallas-gun-control

Trump abandons flirtation with gun control - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...he-nra-abandoning-flirtation-with-gun-control

(7/9/2018) President Trump nominates Brett Kavanaugh to the SCOTUS to better support SCOTUS 2A ruling for decades as "He thinks assault weapons are within the scope of the Second Amendment" - https://www.motherjones.com/politic...vanaugh-could-deal-a-big-blow-to-gun-control/

Trump's position on the Second Amendment - https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Second_Amendment_Rights.pdf

(1/3/2019) With President Trump's support, NRA goes international with core NRA principle "... armed citizens are safe citizens" - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-01-03/nra-goes-global-with-its-pro-gun-agenda
 
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IMHO:

1. Various devices designed to make semi-auto firearms fire in an automatic mode (auto-sears, links, etc are illegal) however, the functioning of these parts cannot be duplicated without having the parts installed
2. In a (seemingly) like manner, BATF has deemed bump-stocks illegal in that they can make a firearm fire in a manner which is similar to automatic fire

The problem is you can achieve #2 WITHOUT using a bump stock so this 'manner which is similar to automatic fire' now becomes illegal

Since this can be accomplished in various ways without a bump stock with many (if not all) semi-auto firearms, this will eventually lead to semi-auto firearms becoming illegal.

So this ban is unequivocally bad.

Full Disclosure I use Linux Mint and I'm a Trump supporter. As a man that has become a 2A supporter and often leads with his heart, President Trump likely stated his support of the bump stock ban before he was aware of the nuances listed above.

OK, all that is out in the air, so what can we do about it. IMHO electing someone else in 2020 would not be a step forward.

How about becoming vocal in NRA, SAF, GOA and your local representatives?
 
SharpDog said:
so what can we do about it. I'm a Trump supporter ... IMHO electing someone else in 2020 would not be a step forward.
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We can vote out anti-2A law makers and vote in 2A law makers.

I continuously engage talks with Democrats/progressives on gun rights as right to self defense/self protection. When they respond their lifestyle is such to not need to protect themselves, I have them consider single moms/elderly/physically disabled people living in rough neighborhoods where they are robbed/raped/killed daily and gun ownership maybe the only viable means of self defense/self protection.

When they speak of sensible gun control, I counter, "Yes, let's do the sensible things to protect these vulnerable people's rights to self defense/self protection".

I had discussions where younger progressives started arguing with life-long Democrats on behalf of the vulnerable people's right to self defense/self protection.

Hear from liberals, progressives and LGBTQ supporters of gun rights.



 
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They don't want to. If you vote for the lesser of two evils, the lesser is still evil and that doesn't mean you cannot criticize the Lesser One.

It is arguable that with Hillary as President, the bump stock ban would have been strongly opposed in the Congress due the lack need for of tribal submission by the GOP.

Of course, who knows about SCOTUS and if Kennedy would have quit.
 
The single salient contribution that Trump has made to the pro-gun cause is the naming of two Supreme Court justices. Of course, you have to realize that Trump has farmed out the judicial selection process to the Federalist Society. Although Federalist Society picks may be collaterally pro-gun, their main focus is to get the government out of business regulation. Social issues provide a convenient cover for the true agenda.
 
Elkins45 said:
So is this the absolute end of the road?
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Don’t know much about it, including how it works but their may be this.
https://www.lordrockwell.com/not-a-bumpstock

The ATF agent that originally approved the bump stock said something to the effect of ...they can ban the bump stock if they want, people out there are already working on new technologies that will have the same effect. It will be one devise after another now....

I believe he’s right, which will make the argument to ban all semiautos more prevalent among the anti’s
 
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