Can an AK 47 really be used effectively out to 1000 yards?

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mrcpu

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I'm reading this ad on gunbroker for an AK-47, and they're claiming with what appears to be this POS scope that they're good out to 1000 yards. That seems extraordinary, given the discussions on this forum about how to hit 1k yards for < 1k $'s... (and the fact that it ain't easy)...

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=69146377

OF course, it also says ak-47 in .223, but aren't 47's 7.62x39?
 
With an open site I have been able to use an AK-47 at 100 yards relatively effectively on a man sized target and would assume that with a decent scope that range may be able to extend to about 300 yards, as DWARREN123 said. I highly doubt its ability to remain an effective firearm at 1000 yards.
 
I think what he means is the scope is designed for targets out to 1000 yards. The POSP is used by the Russians and satalite states on the Draganov "Sniper" rifle.
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Though it's more of a Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) the 7.62x54R round it fires can be effective at 1000 yards. Mosin Nagants, which fire the same 7.62x54R ammunition, have adjustable rear sights for up to 1000 yards. So if he meant that the scope was good at 1000 yards he ain't lyin. If he meant that AK was... well he doesn't understand ballistics very well. I would stand up and wave at a man shooting that rifle at me from 1000 yards away.
 
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AK's can easily hit man-sized targets at 100 yards. I would say it's practical accuracy limit is about 200 yards. Maybe you could push it to 300 yards, but that's really pushing it.

1000 yards? Haha... :rolleyes:

Though I should add that the 7.62x39 is still lethal far beyond the range of its practical accuracy. Make sure you shoot at a back-stop / berm.
 
i can effectivly hit 200yd targets all day long with my ak in the prone. but you have to remember that the 7.62x39 is an intermidiate cartridge and is not designed to be a 1000yd weapon.

The round (7.62X39) is about a 300 yard/meter man size target round not a 1,000 yard round.
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basically what i am getting at!
 
+1 what Jeremy 2171 said. I can believe the AK can be used to (semi) effectively engage area targets out to 1000 meters (which even AK iron sights graduate out to), but even with a good scope, neither the round nor the weapon perform well enough to engage a point target at much beyond the usual sort of combat ranges.
 
When evaluating range claims, there are two things to consider.

The first is the terminal ballistic payload of the round fired. It leaves the muzzle with a certain amount of energy, and starts shedding it immediately. One thousand yards later, will it arrive with enough energy to be useful?

The next is the accuracy of the rifle itself. Let's assume you've got an average, 3 MOA rifle.

100 yards away, you're 3 inches off your point of aim. 200, 6 inches, 300, 12 inches, 400, 15 inches, 500, 18", 600, 21", 700 24", 800, 27", 900, 30", 1000, 33".

Now, how big is your target? I'm an average American male in most dimensions. I'm taller than 33", but I'm not 33" wide. Assuming you can manage windage and holder at that range, is 3 MOA enough to reliably hit a human sized target at that range? How about 2 MOA?

A practical item to take into consideration is the holdover. The holdover for .308 @ 1000 yards is about 34 feet, whereas the holdover for 7,62x39 is about 12 feet at _500_ yards. It's not easy to imagine a point 34 feet above a point 1000 yards away, and so one hopes that your sights have a lot of adjustability to them.
 
I doubt that many people on this forum could hit a man size target at 1000 yards with an AK-47 (7.62) given 100 rounds of ammo.

First off, the rifle is 3-4MOA at 100 yards. That means that if you were to erase all wind factors, magically assume the round is still super-sonic , mount the rifle in a machine rest, using a hydraulic trigger release,and you were shooting high quality re-loads, and you had a very high quality scope , you would at best be shooting 35-45" groups at 1000 yards.

Now add in the fact that the triggers on AK's are god awful, the ammo is low quality, there's the human element,the scope you have probably doesn't have enough windage or elevation adjustment (you would need to build a custom 100MOA mount) or power, and there will be varrying wind conditions over the 1000 path of the bullet, and add in the fact that the bullet is going to be tumbling end over end because it went sub-sonic about 400-300 yards back. I doubt you're going to actually hit a damn thing, but you'll probably scare whoever is in that general direction.

The 7.62x39 is good for shooting targets out to about 300-400 yards. After that it's not going to be doing all that much. The bullet will not be super-sonic at 1000. The only real advantage the AK-47 (or varant) would have at 1000 yards over a bolt counter-part would be sheer volume of fire, however thoes benefits are heavily outweighed by the drawbacks.

I'd consider this to be about like trying to hit a rabbit sized target at 400 yards with a 22lr.
 
Kalashnikov, the man himself, has stated on numerous occasions that the AK rifle series were never intended to be long range weapons.
400 meters is the maximum EFFECTIVE range for these weapons.
 
The bullet will go that far, but unless we put fifty guys with AKs in a line like unto the American revolution and have them volley fire, I'm not placing any money on hitting anybody.

That said, if somebody was 1,000 meters away, and walking dust puffs into my position, I don't think I would stand in the open and wave at them. :)

You can ask any of the long time Utah THR or TFL members. There used to be a phone booth sized rock at 460 meters in our regular shooting spot. Most of us learned how to lob PISTOL bullets into the rock on a pretty consistent basis. So it can be done. skyder used to do it consistently with a 9x18 Makarov.
 
Thanks for the info. I agree, I wouldn't stand up and wave if I was in front of it, but being behind the scope, I wouldn't be shooting that far anyway...
 
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=69146377

OF course, it also says ak-47 in .223, but aren't 47's 7.62x39?
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Your typical AK is 7.62x39, but there are the .223 variants.

I'm reading this ad on gunbroker for an AK-47, and they're claiming with what appears to be this POS scope that they're good out to 1000 yards.
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I think you meant, POSP scope, not POS scope, although the POSP may be a POS.

In the regard to the claimed capability of the gun, YOU misunderstood. The scope has a reticle for out to 1000 yards. There is no claim that the gun will shoot well at 1000 yards.

POSP scope features illuminated rangefinding reticle and adj turrets to engage targets out to 1000yds.
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Assuming the reticle is for the same caliber as the rifle, you can engage targets out to 1000 yards with that scope. As noted, that may be area targets, but area targets are targets.

I think you could do better with a .223 out of a 16" barrel at 1000 yards than with a 7.62x39, but the projection is going to be down so something like 1000 fps for .223.
 
I wouldn't attempt that shot with anything less than 7mmRem.mag
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Shooting at 1,000 yards is really not all that difficult, IF you have a good rifle and load, AND there isn't much wind. As for a cartridge's suitability for 1,000 yard shooting, it's all a function of bullet BC and velocity. Drive a bullet with a BC of .5 or greater at 2650fps or greater, and you will get there.

Don
 
From what I can gather

WHat most people are trying to do is at the very minimum stay above the speed out to whatever range you're shooting at (or subsonic the entire way).

A 140 gr slippery 6.5 at what? at least 2850 fps seems to be the magic combo now a days.
 
Full-auto volley fire

Sure, full-auto, massed infantry volley firing, it'll do some damage.

Volley fire is pretty much obsolete, replaced by crew-served mortars.
 
AK's are more accurate than most give them credit for. You dont need a scope to get it out of them either. Even using Wolf, which isnt all that great, (its mostly very inconsistent) you can still hit a man sized target at 300 yards with open sights.

Truthfully, I doubt most could hit a 1000 yard bullseye target 3 for 10 (I'm being nice here too :) ) using a match rifle in an accepted "accurate" round from a bench, let alone a field position. Those who shoot at the farther ranges generally put the time and effort in to know how to consistently make good hits. Having a gun that will is by no means a guarantee that you can.

Just to give you an idea of what a lowly AK can do, this was shot at 200 yards, the smaller group on the bottom from a rest to confirm zero, the upper group from cross legged sitting at a steady cadence. The gun was a SAR1 in 7.62x39 using iron sights, that have a slight cant too. Ammo was Wolf 154 grain soft points.
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Another comment I hear quite a bit is.."the triggers on AK's are god awful..". Every AK I ever shot, from the lowliest clone to the real thing, they all have had nice triggers, and almost always nicer than your average AR/M16. Even the guns that had slap, still had a nice trigger, it just hurt after awhile. :)
 
Truthfully, I doubt most could hit a 1000 yard bullseye target 3 for 10 (I'm being nice here too ) using a match rifle in an accepted "accurate" round from a bench, let alone a field position.
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AK103K,

You'd be surprised. As I stated earlier, it's not all that hard when you don't have alot of wind to contend with. From the prone position I managed to rack up quite a few "X"s" when the X ring was 10". Now that it's 5", it's a whole nuther ball game.:eek:

Don
 
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