Can you substitute same weight bullets in load data?

[Scout21]

I'm wanting to load some 130 grain Barnes TTSX in .308 Winchester. I've got a pound of H322 that I'd like to use. Barnes doesn't list H322 in their 130 grain load data. Hodgdon, however, has load data for the 130 grain Speer Hollow Point using H322. Can I load the 130 grain TTSX while using Hodgdon's 130 grain Speer Hollow Point load data utilizing H322?

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I cross data for different bullets. Always start at starting loads.

 

[redcon1]

Probably. But you should start your load development at the starting load and work it up from there while monitoring for signs of pressure and, when you start venturing off the published data path like this, you should be using a chronograph to monitor velocity so you can compare it to the published data/pressure because you are now engaged in more advanced reloading and a chronograph is a necessary tool for advanced reloading. That's all just my opinion of course.

 

[AJC1]

No you cannot substitute cup and core data for monos.

 

[DMW1116]

This. Solid copper is harder to push down a barrel.

 

[MEHavey]

Solid copper is harder

+ Multiple.

Do not crosswalk jacketed data for Barnes solids.

You also need to know comparative bullet length against comparative OAL, and
the resulting shank depth into the case ... which can significantly affect pressures*

* Knowing the relative OALs and weights for normal jacketed & cast, you can generally
noodle out safe starting points. Not so w/ solids.

 

[243winxb]

Can I load the 130 grain TTSX while using Hodgdon's 130 grain Speer Hollow Point load data utilizing H322?

Unknown.

The many grooves cut into the TTSX MAY produce lower pressure then the Speer?

History has shown the grooves were added to reduce copper fouling & reduce pressure.

 

[Riomouse911]

I would not cross X bullet (or similar) data with standard bullet data. Too many variables can make pressures go wonky for me to play around with. YMMV.

Stay safe.

 

[Scout21]

Thank for the info, guys.

If it exists, can anyone point me to where I can find Barnes .308 130 grain TTSX load data using H322? If I can't find a reliable source I'll be forced to use my Varget that I was really wanting to save for something else.

I'll probably shoot Barnes an email asking if they can provide me with load data. If they can I'll report back.

 

[kalielkslayer]

Your last paragraph is the way to go!

 

[MEHavey]

Quickload gives me an H335 baseline against Barnes' published data for the 308Win/130 TTSX-BT.
Quickload also tells me that substituting faster H322 requires that powder be a full 10% lower than the listed H335 data.

Key Question -- does the OP have access to a chronograph ?

 

[buck460XVR]

No you cannot substitute cup and core data for monos.

This. Solid copper is harder to push down a barrel.

Monos are significantly longer when at the same weight of Jacketed, Plated and Lead. I have no problem substituting bullets of similar weight as long as they are of similar construction and profile as those used in the tested recipe.

 

[Scout21]

Key Question -- does the OP have access to a chronograph ?

I do not.

 

[Scout21]

I shot Barnes an email. I'll post the response if the information provided is useful.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I do not.

Read this again then start saving up for a good chronograph.

when you start venturing off the published data path like this, you should be using a chronograph to monitor velocity so you can compare it to the published data/pressure because you are now engaged in more advanced reloading and a chronograph is a necessary tool for advanced reloading.

Couldn’t have said it better. Exactly right. Don’t cut corners. That’s how people end up with nifty new nicknames like “Lefty” or “Ol’ One Eye.”

 

[AJC1]

I shot Barnes an email. I'll post the response if the information provided is useful.

You have several options to gets reasonably safe loads. First would be download GRT and play with that. Second buy quickloads. Third and the most labor intensive is to cross calculate a load based on what powders are listed. If you find a bullet of exactly the same weight and powder as listed as the mono calculate if their is a change and how much. Doing these calculation with as many powders as possible improves accuracy. As an arbitrary number across 3 powders you see a 7% reduction in the range of charges. Apply that reduction to the charge of the cup and core bullet to get your mono charge. Good math skills and a lot of care is needed and the cherry on top is still starting at the minimum charge you calculate. Most often it will be a reduction due to the increase in length and bearing surface and the higher resistance to bullet deformation to engage the rifling.

 

[243winxb]

Start at 13 grs & work up. 35 grs for a 130 TTSX in 308 win is my best guess.

 

[entropy]

Within the same bullet weights within types, yes. otherwise no. The only notable exception in my reloading regimen is 4.5 gr. Bullseye works for either lead or FMJ 230 gr. in .45 ACP. (Though I usually load 5.0 for FMJ.)

 

[Sofie007]

Charges are slighly different for solid copper vs. Cup & core bullets. (Not even delving into bearing surface differences.) Need to start ~10% from max. Be safe out there.

 

[243winxb]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published data for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

**This comparison only applies to these components in 308 win. Others may be very different.**

The best comparison I can come up with is IMR3031 & Benchmark Powder to show difference in bullet type pressures.
Both are a little slower then H322. On burn rate chart & here.http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/powder-equivalents/ My guess of 35 grs of H322 with 130 TTSX looks good as a starting load to me.


Note difference in COL between bullet types.

 

[Bugster]

I agree with some above, I have substituted bullet styles. And I too begin with start loads and do a ladder test. I won't go into great detail but my ladder tests include 3 to 5 charges in .5 grain increments, with 5 rounds in each charge weight. In times of low component levels 3 rounds in each charge weight.

 

[N555]

Load at the start load minus 1gr. I bet barns start load is probably with in about 1gr of a typical 130gr jacked boat tail.
Biggest difference is that sold 130s will take up a little bit more case capacity.
The thing with H322 and bottle necked rifle rounds is your most accurate H322 load is probably some where between the start load and half way up to the max charge.
If you stay away from the max charge, don't worry about it.

 

[Kaldor]

I'm wanting to load some 130 grain Barnes TTSX in .308 Winchester. I've got a pound of H322 that I'd like to use. Barnes doesn't list H322 in their 130 grain load data. Hodgdon, however, has load data for the 130 grain Speer Hollow Point using H322. Can I load the 130 grain TTSX while using Hodgdon's 130 grain Speer Hollow Point load data utilizing H322?

Solids like Barnes require different load data than a cup and core like a few guys have pointed out. If you cant find specific data, one thing you can do is go up a weight class for your load data. In this case I would look at 150gr cup and core bullet load data for the 130gr solid and work up to desired velocity and accuracy. Solids also have different minimum velocities to expand properly, so knowing your velocity is kind of key as you would want to shoot an animal at 500 yards and not have the bullet expand.

 

[Scout21]

Appreciate all of the responses so far.

One more somewhat related question. I'm partial to Barnes TTSX, but I see more load data using the TSX bullet than I do the TTSX bullet. Can I use the TTSX while using TSX load data assuming the weights are the same? The only issue that I can see would be OAL being longer with the TTSX due to the polymer tip being present.

 

[243winxb]

Can I use the TTSX while using TSX load data assuming the weights are the same?

Barnes used same data for both. Different COL. Use a starting load & work up. Watch for pressure signs.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?media/albums/high-pressure-signs.148/