Carbine Question - Which is More Effective - 9MM or .45ACP?

[D-Man]

In talks about carbines, most of the pistol calibers that come up are 9MM, .357, and the occasional .45ACP. I understand the variety that you can get in .357, and the idea of a lever-action gun is something I'm interested in.

What I am not too sure about is when you start comparing 9MM vs. 45 ACP. I know that they aren't going to be long-range guns, but would the 9MM generally be a further shooter than the .45 ACP? Close range the .45 ACP would be great, but I'd think that the 9MM might be a better option for a carbine.

Am I thinking properly about this one, or am I incorrect?

 

[GunTech]

Neither 45 nor 9mm bullets have particularly high ballistic coefficients, so forget about long range. The 9mm is a slightly flatter shooter.

 

[mainmech48]

Neither one gets much in the way of a velocity boost from the longer barrel. The limited case capacity and relatively fast burning powders they use can't take real advantage of it.

Personally, since any practical difference in the maximum effective range is going to be relatively small, and the velocity remaining at the farther edges of it with either is likely to be low enough to make reliable expansion of a HP chancey, I'll opt for a lot more projectile mass over a little more velocity about every time.

IMO, there're a great manyl more all-around practical advantages to be had in a carbine if it's chambered for one of the Magnum revolver cartridges. More versatility whether you handload or not, better long range performance potential than either of the two you cited, and you'll lose a lot less brass, if that's of any interest to you.

 

[DSAPT9]

I agree with what has been said so far. I guess it comes down to what your main reason for the firearm is and what you all ready shoot (Caliber wise). As a possible short range-hunting rifle I would go with the magnum lever guns. I have had the marlin lever guns in both .357 and 44mag. The .357 was my favorite you can shoot the .38 special to practice all day reasonable cheep and then go to full house mag for hunting/back packing.

Home defense or just plain fun I would go with the 9mm. You have more choices of carbines like Bushmaster, Rock River, Bobcat, Keltec in new firearms and on the used market you have Ruger, Marlin Camp 9, HK, UZI, Wilkenson arms and others that all use high cap mags (if legal in your state). Most I have found seem to feed most types of ammo and 9mm is still somewhat cheaper than most.

Your choices in 45 are limited to a few guns like the Thompson, High Point, Marlin Camp 45(if you can find one) and the power increase is not enough to warrant the caliber.

Keltec offers 2 carbines in 9 one uses Glock mags the other uses Smith and Wesson M59 mags. The Marlin Camp 9 also uses Smith and Wesson M59 mags. So if you have any of these firearms all ready your mags are interchangeable.

Hope this helps..

 

[grendelbane]

I have experimented with the pistol caliber carbine concept quite a bit. The 9mm does shoot flatter than the .45ACP. Still, I consider both to be about 100 meter weapons. Certainly they will shoot farther than that, but you begin to have to consider drop, and start wishing that you had a real rifle.

Weight starts to play a factor also. My Colt 9mm AR15 is nice and light, but my Cav-Oly .45 is over 25% heavier, if both are fully loaded. Neither one seems to have any edge in accuracy.

The .45 is also very mannerly when it comes to noise. Not that it is quiet, but it is as quiet a serious caliber as I have ever fired. With hearing protection, all other pistols and rifles sound much louder. It is loud enough that you still need hearing protection, but I am sure that the noise does not travel nearly as far as it does with even the 9mm.

So both will do the job. I will take the unpopular position, and say that the .45 ACP is a bit more effective, terminally speaking. Many people disagree with me. Either cartridge is trounced by a .223, all other things being equal.

 

[wally]

Based on my experience with 9mm UZI and .45 Thompson SMGs the 9mm benefits a lot more with a longer barrels than does the .45ACP compared to the "standard" handgun barrel lengths.

But I think both have passed the point of diminishing returns with a 16" carbine barrel.

--wally.

 

[MMcfpd]

For HD, which for me is likely to be at ranges of 25 yards (or much less), I prefer .45 ACP, which I keep in both ARs and 1911s.

 

[ThomasT]

I have never shot the 45 carbine but do remember what was said in the gun mags when Marlin came out with the Camp Carbines.

The 9mm is a high pressure round that benefits from the longer barrel by about 200 fps. The 45 acp is a low pressure round and does not get much of a boost at all in the longer barrel.

I do have 2 9mm rifles. A Marlin Camp Carbine and a Hi-Point 9mm. Both are fun to shoot. They are also reasonably accurate with good ammo. Where i go shoot at my buddies land there is a 3" pole on the far side of his pond. We shoot off hand at the pole from 100 yards. Not every round is a hit but 75% of them are. My ammo that goes 1150-1200 fps out of a handgun will reach 1350 fps or so from the rifle. I don't load hot rounds for these guns either. They are NOT made for that.

The above mentioned friend had a Marlin 9mm and his son used it to kill his first deer. The shot was about 40 yards. The bullet went all the way through and the deer dropped after 30-40 yards.

Every time i see them listed on GB the 45s are about $150.00 to $200.00 higher.

 

[grendelbane]

A lot of people think that because the 9mm picks up more velocity from a longer barrel, that it is the better choice.

They are not considering the fact that the .45 bullet is twice as heavy as the 9mm bullet. (More or less, but close enough). The per centage increase in kinetic energy is about the same, but the lighter bullet of the 9mm has to travel more quickly to accomplish this.

Now, I know, KE is not the way to measure a bullet's effectiveness. And I also know that the increased velocity makes for a flatter trajectory for the 9mm.

I think that the .45 hollow points are more likely to be in their best performing window of velocity than the 9mm bullets are. In both cartridges, I would recommend the heavier bullets, for this reason.

I can understand some one favoring the 9mm for reasons of economy, weight, slightly flatter trajectory. In pistol length barrels, I believe that the .45 out performs the 9mm in terminal ballistics, and that this difference is about the same when both cartridges are fired from carbine barrels.

I can confirm that chicks dig 9mm carbines!

 

[Crosshair]

It is allot easier to hot-rod the 9mm in a carbine. My "Blue-9" 9mm Carbine loads clock at about 1550 fps out of my 995 Hi-point. It is still operating within standard pressure. I found the sweet spot between powder burn rate, bullet weight, barrel length, and bolt timing. (By dumb luck might I add.)

 

[APIT50]

Carbine

I shoot one of these out to 100 yds or so and it is plenty accurate and a hoot to shoot. Seems to have plenty of power out there. Drop is not too bad either.

www.mechtechsys.com/1911.html