Why aren’t .45acp carbines more popular?

Mosin77

Mosin77

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Oct 7, 2019
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This is a question I’ve been wondering for a long time.

So, I know why the .45acp has fallen out of favor. As an aside, yes I know there’s still plenty of people, especially in capacity-limited jurisdictions, that go for 1911s or other flavors of .45acp -but for the majority of carry, home defense applications, 9mm is the new normal. It’s often cited that 9mm is statistically just as good as .45acp. It’s also known that .45 is a bit too heavy in recoil for everyone to easily master fast, accurate followup shots, and that the physical size of the rounds limits double stack popularity, while most would feel more comfortable with a 17+1 9mm vs an 8+1 .45 in similar side format. And some people really put a premium on ammo/mag compatibility…

But it’s also true that .45acp has excellent gel numbers. some of the modern hollowpoints that are great in 9mm are even better in .45, with an expanded diameter over 3/4” and plenty of penetration. It’s also got a great real world track record, even with FMJ. And it’s generally accepted that handgun stopping power often comes down to shot placement and in general the size and tissue destruction of those shots.

So my thought is, 9mm is getting really popular as a home defense carbine option. But wouldn’t .45acp be even better? A heavier, shoulder-stocked platform that cuts down on recoil, a platform that doesn’t depend on a magazine through a pistol grip, so you can have a fat double stack .45 mag that holds as many rounds as you like, and ballistics which are arguably better. The lower pressure of the round might even make this slightly less punishing on the ears (probably splitting hairs here admittedly) if you had to use it inside. And it’s not like .45 is some unobtainable boutique round.

So what am I missing? Why are .45acp carbines not the go-to for PCC/home defense?
 
Ballistic arc like a basketball, more expensive ammo, lower magazine capacity, lack of common, cheap double-stack magazines, and can also cause regular 230gr FMJ to go briefly supersonic, among other reasons.

Blowback 9mm PCCs already suffer from sharp recoil impulse thanks to the heavy bolt slamming around. Some of the .40s are downright uncomfortable. A .45 would be even worse.
 
Something like an updated De Lisle carbine but except as an auto (maybe with the ability to lock the bolt) instead of a bolt gun would be pretty cool.

I think the pistol caliber guns pretty much fell out of favor when the AR's got smaller and offered more in the way of performance. Other than something like a special-use type gun, like the above, I really dont see much point in them anymore.
 
For me, it's simple economics, the .45ACP regardless of bullet type costs more to shoot than 9mm. Since I use the 9mm Carbine for practice and PCC matches, cheaper is better.

Personally I prefer a rifle cartridge in a rifle/carbine when it comes to HD. I like the fragmentation to limit the over-penetration. So I prefer a .223 and/or .300 BLK Out over any pistol cartridge.

I had a .45ACP Semi Thompson that I inherited, but it was pig.. an 11lb .45ACP carbine is fun for a stick or two.
 
NIGHTLORD40K said:
Ballistic arc like a basketball, more expensive ammo, lower magazine capacity, lack of common, cheap double-stack magazines, and can also cause regular 230gr FMJ to go briefly supersonic, among other reasons.

Blowback 9mm PCCs already suffer from sharp recoil impulse thanks to the heavy bolt slamming around. Some of the .40s are downright uncomfortable. A .45 would be even worse.
Click to expand...
From hallway to entryway isn't long enough distance to worry about the ballistic arc. Inexpensive magazines (unless you can get grease gun mags cheap) is another thing.
Chuck R. said:
For me, it's simple economics, the .45ACP regardless of bullet type costs more to shoot than 9mm. Since I use the 9mm Carbine for practice and PCC matches, cheaper is better.

Personally I prefer a rifle cartridge in a rifle/carbine when it comes to HD. I like the fragmentation to limit the over-penetration. So I prefer a .223 and/or .300 BLK Out over any pistol cartridge.

I had a .45ACP Semi Thompson that I inherited, but it was pig.. an 11lb .45ACP carbine is fun for a stick or two.
Click to expand...
Concur. 45 cost more than 9mm.

Be neat to have a Ruger or Marlin that takes a Para magazine.
 
SOMEBODY must agree to the advantages of the .45 carbine, they are available for sale.
CMMG makes one with their delayed blowback action that should cushion the recoil.

Back when an American Commoner could buy a submachine gun without too much trouble, I read about a guy who was modifying then-cheap Thompson magazines for the then-cheap Reising gun.
 
Every time a company comes out with a pistol carbine there are always those who want a 10mm, Never wondered about 45 ACP?

9mm in a carbine length barrel it more than sufficient

I also prefer a handgun for home defense.
 
Rule3 said:
Every time a company comes out with a pistol carbine there are always those who want a 10mm,
Click to expand...

Well, Jeff Cooper his own self said the 10mm did not show an advantage until 75 yards and more.

GBExpat said:
Hahahaha ... you just confirmed what I always figured to be the case. :)
Click to expand...

A guy here had one of those imitation 1927s and it was a slug for sure.
A couple of acquaintances have live legal Thompsons, a 1928A1 and an M1A1. It doesn't take long to have all the fun needed in full auto. Like Herb Woodley vs Dagwood Bumstead on tools, sometimes it is better to know somebody who has one than to get your own.
 
Love my marlin camp carbine in 45.

Recoil? Ha ha, none. The 45 acp does not recoil enough to be a concern.

9's flip more cause they come out with higher velocity.

Regardless of caliber, the longer the barrel length, the less recoil is felt. Which is why shooting my camp carbine in 45 is so fun.

If my wife can shoot a 45 in a 3" barrel without issues, well...

Popularity of a caliber doesn't make it better.

The majority is often wrong more often than not.
 
I have shot the Thompson M1A1 and M3A1 Grease gun while in the Army. And yes the 45 ACP has a rainbow trajectory. Neither are all that light especially compared to 9mm subguns or carbines. The Thompson M1A1 is 14 pounds loaded and the M3A1 is 10.25 pounds loaded. The most common magazine size for both was 30 rounds.

I have shot Hi Point Carbines in 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 ACP. All are straight blow back and for me the 40 S&W had snappier recoil out of the three. But recoil on all of them was not bad.
 
It shoots a big, slow, heavy bullet and would be almost like shooting a mortar at longer distances. Factory ammo is rather expensive and handloads aren't all that economical either. I see it as a solution in search of a problem that other caliber solve much better. It's still good in a handgun if you are capable of placing your shots where they need to be.
 
One big advantage to 9mm PCC's is... Glock. Specifically cheap quality Glock OEM magazines and cheap high capacity quality Glock OEM magazines.

I have a Ruger PC Charger and one of its big appeals for me was the ability to use Glock magazines... and I don't even really like Glock pistols. The only Glock pistol I own is actually a P80 I built, mainly because I had so many great Glock 9mm magazines for my PC Charger.

45 acp is my self defense round of choice but I usually carry a 9mm (Diamondback DB9) because I can pocket carry it but I don't have a pocketable 45 acp. My night stand gun is an XD mod 2 in 45 acp (with 13 round mag) which is also my favorite plastic gun. My backup SBR is a Sig MCX Spear with a Rattler 300 AAC blackout upper. It is also my backup gun when I am camping in the RV. Instead of seeking a 45 acp PCC I went for a much more powerful 300 AAC SBR.

I agree with the OP that the 45 acp is a more powerful round than a 9mm and I would personally generally prefer a 45 acp in a self defense situation but there are other advantages to 9mm that can make it more preferrable to 45 acp in some situations. Are there any $1000 or under 45 acp PCC's which can take a foldable stock? One of the things I love about my Ruger PC Charger is how compact it is with a folded stock (yes, my PC Charger is registered as a SBR thanks to the brace BS).

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Because there is no meaningful advantage over a 9mm Carbine. Same with the 10mm, the 40 S&W, etc. They all sport more "power" than the 9, but the 9 gets the business done as well, with less recoil and more capacity.
Also, because there is a round that owns them all in Carbine-World: The 223/5.56.
 
I'd like to have had the Ruger Camp
Carbine, but there weren't that many
for sale around here at the time, and
all were sold above retail.
I've shot a Ruger and a Hipoint both
but never owned one. I can't understand
any objections concerning recoil.
All but non existent IMO
Any of them are 100 yard guns

For whatever reason, many don't
understand that lots of old "obsolete "
guns, as were fired killing buffalo
and for national and international
target matches ( like the Creedmore
matches many years ago) were
fired with "rainbow trajectory " rifles
and ammunition. They knew how
to shoot. One of my black powder
mentors had an original Springfield
rifled musket, and could actually
shoot it at 200 meters at the range.
Another did as well, except with an
original Enfield.
They knew how to shoot
 
Ranger99 said:
I'd like to have had the Ruger Camp
Carbine, but there weren't that many
for sale around here at the time, and
all were sold above retail.
I've shot a Ruger and a Hipoint both
but never owned one. I can't understand
any objections concerning recoil.
All but non existent IMO
Any of them are 100 yard guns

For whatever reason, many don't
understand that lots of old "obsolete "
guns, as were fired killing buffalo
and for national and international
target matches ( like the Creedmore
matches many years ago) were
fired with "rainbow trajectory " rifles
and ammunition. They knew how
to shoot. One of my black powder
mentors had an original Springfield
rifled musket, and could actually
shoot it at 200 meters at the range.
Another did as well, except with an
original Enfield.
They knew how to shoot
Click to expand...
Ya, there's a reason Tier 1 operators don't use .45-70s (or PCCs for that matter) and trust me, they know how to shoot.

You wanna lob .45s at a moving target on a 200yd two-way range, be my guest. It's a free country, kinda, sorta, for now.
 
Mosin77 said:
But wouldn’t .45acp be even better?
Click to expand...
Muzzle velocity out of a 16" barrel?

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .45 Auto Results

(statement of intent)
www.ballisticsbytheinch.com www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

Apparently not a problem.

What about velocity (and energy loss) at distance? Yep.

www.ammunitiontogo.com

45 ACP Ballistics - Velocity, Energy, Drop & More

A look at 45 ACP ballistics and the caliber's potential performance. This article includes muzzle velocity, energy, drop and coefficient for popular loads.
www.ammunitiontogo.com www.ammunitiontogo.com

So how about 9mm and barrel length?

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: 9mm Luger Results

(statement of intent)
www.ballisticsbytheinch.com www.ballisticsbytheinch.com

Better muzzke velocity numbers at the greater lengths, but what about the 100 yard velocities, bullet drop, and energies?

www.ammunitiontogo.com

9mm Ballistics - Velocity, Energy & Drop Data

An in-depth look at 9mm ballistics. This article includes velocity, energy and bullet drop data for the most popular 9x19 loads in the U.S.
www.ammunitiontogo.com www.ammunitiontogo.com
 
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