Carbine's .45 v/s .9mm

[scaatylobo]

I am not trying to start "another caliber war".

I am asking what reasons YOU [ yes I need a reason ] would choose a PCC [ pistol caliber carbine ] in either .45acp or .9mm.

Is the penetration of the 9mm and the much newer and extreme ammunition and less weight / more ammo,worth the trade off to a much lighter bullet ?.

I visualize 2 scenarios that are worlds apart.

One is your carrying that PCC in a woods scenario and its is for S/D against any & everything = including bears.

Would the very much slower .45acp [ with MUCH less ammunition ] be worth the possibility that it would surely stop a bruin,or is that whistling Dixie up a goats butt ?.

Or the MUCH faster 9mm in either ball [ LOTS of penetration ] or frangible ammunition do the job better with a 'hail of bullets' that are easier to hold on target [ less recoil ] and lots of pwe pwe in the magazine ?.

I am presuming that all are AIMED SHOTS and not counting 'spray & pray'.

So,what y'all think on my second guessing myself.

This all started when I decided to buy a Ruger takedown PCC in 9mm,and was thinking I might need to wait for the .45acp version.

Second scenario was for home defense = do you still feel the same about the woods choice ?.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I've been thinking about a CZ Scorpion with an arm brace and a suppressor for home defense for awhile. If it was offered in 45, I'd probably consider that more heavily because I reload 45acp.

If you are considering bears other than black bears, I'd sooner have the Hi Point 10mm Carbine. But since I don't care for Hi Points I solved the issue with a Kriss 10mm carbine instead.

If you get a 9, I'd focus on 147 gr ammo. If you get a 45 and black bear are your concern, warm 200 gr ammo would be a nice balance.

 

[gulogulo1970]

Woods rifle with bears? Got to go 45ACP over 9mm.

If it will feed a semi-wadcutter bullet, you would get more penetration than a JHP and a more disruptive profile than FMJ.

 

[ric jackson]

I am not trying to start "another caliber war".

I am asking what reasons YOU [ yes I need a reason ] would choose a PCC [ pistol caliber carbine ] in either .45acp or .9mm.

Is the penetration of the 9mm and the much newer and extreme ammunition and less weight / more ammo,worth the trade off to a much lighter bullet ?.

I visualize 2 scenarios that are worlds apart.

One is your carrying that PCC in a woods scenario and its is for S/D against any & everything = including bears.

Would the very much slower .45acp [ with MUCH less ammunition ] be worth the possibility that it would surely stop a bruin,or is that whistling Dixie up a goats butt ?.

Or the MUCH faster 9mm in either ball [ LOTS of penetration ] or frangible ammunition do the job better with a 'hail of bullets' that are easier to hold on target [ less recoil ] and lots of pwe pwe in the magazine ?.

I am presuming that all are AIMED SHOTS and not counting 'spray & pray'.

So,what y'all think on my second guessing myself.

This all started when I decided to buy a Ruger takedown PCC in 9mm,and was thinking I might need to wait for the .45acp version.

Second scenario was for home defense = do you still feel the same about the woods choice ?.

 

[ric jackson]

If the 45acp will chamber and fire 45 super then 45 acp all the way.

 

[Texas10mm]

For bears .45 Long Auto all the way. I've got the Ruger PCC. If they come out with a .45 Long Auto then I'll be getting one of those too.....if it uses double stack magazines. My interest would be lower if it uses single stack mags.

For home defense I'd again go with the .45 Long Auto.

 

[Scooter22]

"One is your carrying that PCC in a woods scenario and its is for S/D against any & everything = including bears"

Well my PCC would be a lever action in .357, 44 mag, 45LC ect. I wouldn't want to rely on either one of the semi auto rounds if bears were in the mix. They really don't get much boost from the longer barrels like the LA rounds unless you reload them. Why are you considering the 9mm or 45acp? Are you going to carry a side arm in the same caliber or do you just like the Ruger? When I camp in the ADKs I'll have a pump 12ga or 30-30 LA with me. But theres only black bears there.

 

[mrmike7189]

For Example: The Marlin Camp Carbine comes in 45 and 9mm. 45 mags hold 7-10 rounds. 9mm mags hold 10 ,12,20,and up to 30 rounders are available.
They are fun to shoot for recreation,plinking, target shooting etc. If you own 9mm/45 pistols,it is nice to share ammuntion and even mags with a paired pistol. (The camp 9 carbines accept Smith and wesson 59/69 series mags.Camp45 takes 1911 mags)As for self defense needs, the longer 16 inch barrells do add 100-150 fps &more energy.
They will work in a shtf scenario, a light carbine you can hand to your wife,child, friend , to use to "save their bacon. " My wife cannot tolerate recoil of bigger rifle caliber, so the 9mm carbine is easier to handle for her,easier to aim, and I feel confident she will hit what she aims at. The new ruger PCC seems like a good player in the carbine category

 

[OARNGESI]

I’d go the 9mm for cheaper range time 9 40 45 all end up doing pretty much the same thing now a days. If you need more you are probably better off going with a rifle caliber

 

[Mosin Bubba]

If I'm thinking I have to stop something, I'm not bringing a PCC.

Bears? Think less 9mm and more 45-70. A Guide Gun isn't going to be any longer or heavier than most PCCs.

 

[someguy2800]

I won’t entertain the idea of carrying a 9mm or 45 acp carbine as a woods rifle for defense against bears. Neither are appropriate at all.

I have a 9mm carbine because there are better options available and it’s twice as much ammo for my dollar.

 

[Chuck R.]

Seriously IF I was wandering the woods concerned about bears AND willing to tote a PCC (long gun) it would be in something more powerful than a pistol cartridge. HD, again I'd prefer something more stout than a PCC. Right now I'm using an AR15 with Nosler 60 grn Ballistic Tips. A 5.56/.223 with proper ammunition has less risk of over-penetration and is a lot more effective.

While I feel the PCC has a useful role, when it comes to SD/HD and I'm willing to use a long gun, then it will be in a long gun caliber.

I use PCCs for fun, as trainers and for matches. I have both 9mm and .45ACP (and a Marlin in .45C). The 9mm gets about 5 times the use of the .45ACP and I reload for both. 9mm is just that much cheaper to shoot/reload for and brass is everywhere so I don't even bother to pick it up. Cannot say the same for my .45ACP brass.

 

[jeepnik]

If you have a choice get something in at least 41 mag. 45 colt or 44 mag even better. A lever gun can give you plenty of capacity. They are just as fast as a semi auto if you intend to do anything but spray & pray

 

[easy]

10MM.

 

[cheygriz]

Simple.
If you're a disciple of Jeffie Cooper, get a .45.

If you're a disciple of the rest of the world, get a 9MM.

 

[TIMC]

hmmmmm....

 

[scaatylobo]

I sadly expected some of the responses.

I was pretty specific about mentioning the RUGER PCC,takedown.

I want a gun that can be taken down to NOT look like a gun ,especially when traveling and using motels / hotels [ they now are very nervous about such ].

I own as many calibers and even a few more that were mentioned,thanks for mentioning the obvious

But I am praying for a carbon fiber stock for the TAKEDOWN Ruger soon.

Making it MUCH lighter than all other choices.

I have seen the "takedown" M-4's and they are pretty cool,and yes I have considered that as a possibility IF the Ruger is not made MUCH lighter really soon.

 

[shoobe01]

.45 begins decelerating before the end of a 16" barrel. 8-10 is IIRC the right length for a .45. If not SBRing, and all other preferences for 9mm aside, I'd not get one in .45 just because of the wasted speed.

...I want a gun that can be taken down to NOT look like a gun ,especially when traveling and using motels / hotels [ they now are very nervous about such ].

Why the Ruger specifically, why a takedown at all? If taken down then it's harder to bring into action. I'd think either very short, or easily deployable, and/or well cased. In my experience (traveled weekly for years, including many car trips and carrying a few guns into the rooms) no one cares at all what you carry into the room. There are many businessmen with their weird work gear, and they have large cases. Get something rectangular that doesn't scream "Gun" and go for it, any length.

I am mostly loaded with other crap, so just keep a couple handguns, but have traveled with broken-down ARs, and assembled SBRs. They work also.

I have known a few who also chose breakdown, small, and PCC, for travel stuff and went: Kel-Tec. The Sub-2000 is much more ideal to me for this role, even for people like me who would otherwise not be seen associating with the types of Kel Tec The size, weight and simply unfold-to-fire nature make them pretty ideal for this. Match to your pistol mags, and you are reducing the logistics footprint. Also: dirt cheap.

 

[jmr40]

My choice would be neither. But if forced to pick one, 9mm all the way. A 147 gr hardcast 9mm bullet will out perform anything in 45 if forced to be used against bear. It's been about 14 months ago but Phil Shoemaker stopped an attacking brown bear in Alaska with this load from a sub compact 9mm pistol. He had spent quite a bit of time testing the load prior to deciding to carry it and was confident of it working.

 

[SamT1]

I’ve got a mectech Ccu. Mine is 460 Rowland. It shoots 45’s just fine too. It’s extremely accurate and reliable. Loves the Keith style lswc bullets too.
If you have a Glock or 1911 already that’s a good option. Very compact and disassembles into something some non gun people may not recognize or is small enough to just stick in a bag.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

How effective would those high end Underwood Exteme Penatrators be out of the Ruger and other PCCs?

 

[somethingbenign]

I'm personally waiting on the PCC to come out in 10mm. I would go with a 9mm over a 45 though. If I was in bear country and needed something handy and packable I'd honestly be checking the ballistics out of mare's leg. Largely because I'm a lever action nerd but I rented one recently with my wife a while back and I was extremely impressed how easy it was to shoot once you got the hang of it. My wife wants one now for her camp gun.

 

[Browning]

.45 begins decelerating before the end of a 16" barrel. 8-10 is IIRC the right length for a .45. If not SBRing, and all other preferences for 9mm aside, I'd not get one in .45 just because of the wasted speed.

Why the Ruger specifically, why a takedown at all? If taken down then it's harder to bring into action. I'd think either very short, or easily deployable, and/or well cased. In my experience (traveled weekly for years, including many car trips and carrying a few guns into the rooms) no one cares at all what you carry into the room. There are many businessmen with their weird work gear, and they have large cases. Get something rectangular that doesn't scream "Gun" and go for it, any length.

I am mostly loaded with other crap, so just keep a couple handguns, but have traveled with broken-down ARs, and assembled SBRs. They work also.

I have known a few who also chose breakdown, small, and PCC, for travel stuff and went: Kel-Tec. The Sub-2000 is much more ideal to me for this role, even for people like me who would otherwise not be seen associating with the types of Kel Tec The size, weight and simply unfold-to-fire nature make them pretty ideal for this. Match to your pistol mags, and you are reducing the logistics footprint. Also: dirt cheap.

^This^

Especially the section in bold. I actually plan on getting a Ruger carbine at some point as well, but for getting a larger gat concealed in a sneaky bag past a bunch o' folks who scare easy I went for with this for something larger than a concealed pistol.

A braced CZ Scorpion pistol



Folds down to this.


I keep it in this backpack.


Just saying, trying to put a carbine together in the middle of an emergency doesn't sound like much fun.

In order to fire it all I have to do is reach my hand inside the backpack, grab the grip, rip the zipper away, pull it out, swing the strut out, flick the safety off and then aim and fire.

I throw it in the backseat for trips. Go into a hotel, I'm just a dude checking in with a backpack.

For most things I go with 9mm over the .45 just because it's a pretty good compromise and it affords me a lot more practice. Bears are probably the one exception to me going with a 9mm. While I know that it could be done (I've heard of large predators being dropped by getting hosed down by police armed with 9's and .40's), I'd probably be more comfortable with a .44 mag.

 

[Havok7416]

To me, 9mm is the more practical caliber for a PCC - the mags typically hold a lot more and the velocity gain is better than .45 if that floats your boat. I own a Ruger PC Carbine for some of the reasons mentioned by the OP (but not bears). There were many reasons for acquiring the gun, but one of the most useful to me was the ability to discretely transport it around in a backpack designed for the purpose (I will have to update this later with the make/model of the backpack).

The intent behind the backpack in my case is not to bring the gun into action from it, but rather to bring it into an area such as a hotel room without drawing attention. To get into the room discretely I can carry a pistol to deal with immediate threats, although I can't think of a time I felt the need to do so. Other than that I just check in with the pack slung. Once I am in the room the gun gets assembled. Since I keep a loaded mag in the receiver, full assembly from the backpack takes 10-15 seconds, but I don't practice or intend to deploy the gun this way.

I also use the backpack when I am going to the range and I usually bring a lot of guns and gear, so it's nice to be able to relieve some of the load in my hands.

 

[Blue Brick]

Hi Point makes a 10mm.