Carbine's .45 v/s .9mm

[bassjam]

I’d go 9mm. The savings on ammo and higher capacity are winners IMO. The slight chance you’ll have to protect yourself from a black bear are slim, and I think both calibers are fairly equal when it comes to two legged targets and probably more similar that you’d think with black bear. Nether gain much velocity with a carbine length barrel. The only reason I’d pick the .45 is if I wanted a Thompson or really wanted to carry a 1911 on my hip and wanted a PCC that took the same mags.

 

[Speedo66]

9mm, take down (folds and fits in a computer shoulder bag), 33 round Glock mags. Sounds like you're shopping for a Keltec S2000.

Got one, great gun. You're welcome!

What is this .45 you speak of?

 

[1911 guy]

I'm a fan of the .45ACP. But in a carbine, I'd opt for 9mm. It benefits much more from a longer barrel.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Of the options, 9mm. I would rather have a 40 than either.

 

[mrmike7189]

Of the options, 9mm. I would rather have a 40 than either.

I have an original Ruger Police Carbine(1997 model) that is chambered in 40S&W. It shoots nice and hits harder than the 9mm. Now that 9mm is all the rage, I doubt that we will see a 40 version from Ruger again?

 

[kBob]

chicharonnes,

nice post and link. Curious about your TRS 25 (from making words of car tags I still think "TRaSh 25 when I see that and just put one on a midlength AR) on your CX4. Can you use the irons through it and how much different is your cheek weld and head position if you do?

Looks like the longest bit is right at 22 inches broken down and that is desirable. Is that wedge pin you mentioned captive or will it stay in one of the halves after breaking the gun down to prevent loss (sort of like the take down pins on HK long arms and the holes in the butt stock?)

Cheap as I am I am more likely to go with a 9 sillymeter upper and a pair of those PMAG .223 to 9x19 conversion units... or buy a HiPoint (Recently turned down an uglier than usual one with five 10 shot mags a $175, told you I am cheap)

Oh and OP,

Given you seem to be talking about black bear I think a 9x19mm would be fine given the low likelihood of needing it at all. I am a big .45ACP freak for personal defense from a hand gun....but much less so from a shoulder weapon. I would think the cost and choices of both guns and ammo would lean me towards the 9x19mm in a carbine. Please don't tell John Moses or any of my friends I said so (he said on an open gun board)

-kBob

 

[MikeInOr]

My Ruger PC9 is a range toy. I can reload 9mm for pretty close to what quality .22lr costs. I use a 45 hand gun with ARX frangible ammo for home defense. The only practical purpose I see for a PC9 is a great SHTF gun but I am not really much of a prepper. I guess the PC9 would also make a pretty good truck gun... my range load of 9mm is 115 fmj or 115 plated... which is probably what I would carry in the PC9 for a truck gun.

The PC9 is actually a fair bit heavier than I expected. Which is great for it's role as a range toy but I can think of several guns that pack more wallop with less weight that would be better woods guns.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

chicharonnes,

nice post and link. Curious about your TRS 25 (from making words of car tags I still think "TRaSh 25 when I see that and just put one on a midlength AR) on your CX4. Can you use the irons through it and how much different is your cheek weld and head position if you do?

Looks like the longest bit is right at 22 inches broken down and that is desirable. Is that wedge pin you mentioned captive or will it stay in one of the halves after breaking the gun down to prevent loss (sort of like the take down pins on HK long arms and the holes in the butt stock?)

Cheap as I am I am more likely to go with a 9 sillymeter upper and a pair of those PMAG .223 to 9x19 conversion units... or buy a HiPoint (Recently turned down an uglier than usual one with five 10 shot mags a $175, told you I am cheap)

Oh and OP,

Given you seem to be talking about black bear I think a 9x19mm would be fine given the low likelihood of needing it at all. I am a big .45ACP freak for personal defense from a hand gun....but much less so from a shoulder weapon. I would think the cost and choices of both guns and ammo would lean me towards the 9x19mm in a carbine. Please don't tell John Moses or any of my friends I said so (he said on an open gun board)

-kBob

I have an older Aimpoint comp 4 mounted to my CX4. It sits slightly lower(I think) than the YRS 25, but it perfectly cowitnesses with the irons on the rifle. No change in position to use either

 

[Bushpilot]

Neither of the options the OP mentioned, the 45acp or the 9mmm, benefit from a longer barrel as much as a 357 mag. 357 Magnum in a carbine really comes to life... I know that a 357 lever really isn't what many would consider a "pistol caliber carbine" but it makes for a great, inexpensive plinker and home defense gun with 38's as well as a good short range deer rifle and camp gun for black bear defense with 357s... 357 carbines get overshadowed by the 44 mags for deer hunting but the 44's can't match the 357's for versatility. You can even small game hunt with the 38s without too much meat damage...

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

I have an original Ruger Police Carbine(1997 model) that is chambered in 40S&W. It shoots nice and hits harder than the 9mm. Now that 9mm is all the rage, I doubt that we will see a 40 version from Ruger again?

I hope we will see additional calibers. The bolt assembly appears to be highly modular and wouldn't be difficult for the factory to change

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Neither of the options the OP mentioned, the 45acp or the 9mmm, benefit from a longer barrel as much as a 357 mag. 357 Magnum in a carbine really comes to life... I know that a 357 lever really isn't what many would consider a "pistol caliber carbine" but it makes for a great, inexpensive plinker and home defense gun with 38's as well as a good short range deer rifle and camp gun for black bear defense with 357s... 357 carbines get overshadowed by the 44 mags for deer hunting but the 44's can't match the 357's for versatility. You can even small game hunt with the 38s without too much meat damage...

357 mag carbine are great firearms.

We had many black bears around our development in PA. I kept a Marlin 1894 357 loaded with 180 gr SJHP's just in case. Those were good for anything with 2 or 4 legs that could cause a problem

 

[Browning]

One thing I've noticed is that before Ruger released their new pistol caliber carbine you'd hardly ever see an old Ruger PC9. Now that the new one is out I've seen quite a few of the older ones. GT Distributors in Garland TX had a small rack of them for awhile. From what the salesman said they were police trade-ins from police dept's that went with those instead of the usual mix of AR's/shotguns.

Might buy an old one if I see one at a decent price.

 

[chicharrones]

chicharonnes,

nice post and link. Curious about your TRS 25 (from making words of car tags I still think "TRaSh 25 when I see that and just put one on a midlength AR) on your CX4. Can you use the irons through it and how much different is your cheek weld and head position if you do?

kBob, the TRS25 will co-witness with the Beretta sights if it isn't mounted on a 1/2" riser like I have done. The reason I have my TRS25 on a riser is because the view through the TRS25 is too small mounted low with the front and rear sights flipped up. A larger diameter red dot would work much better, but I already owned the TRS25, so it got called for "rail duty".

BlueHeeler in post #58 mentions his choice of red dot for his CX4.

Looks like the longest bit is right at 22 inches broken down and that is desirable. Is that wedge pin you mentioned captive or will it stay in one of the halves after breaking the gun down to prevent loss (sort of like the take down pins on HK long arms and the holes in the butt stock?)

-kBob

Actually, the longest portion is just over 21", but having the tape measure behind the gun and the way my smart phone takes pictures, it exaggerates perspective throwing off an accurate measurement photo.

I call the takedown pin a wedge pin, because it reminds me of taking my Pietta 1860 apart, but the Beretta pin will push through either direction as opposed to the 19th century Colt technology.

No, the takedown pin is not captive. It is very stiff, which requires me to use an unfired 9mm cartridge to push it out. Then you have to keep track of it or keep a spare on hand ($7.00). I just like to put the pin back into the lower for safe keeping when I have the gun apart, not unlike the HKs you mention.

 

[Spug]

I have an original Ruger Police Carbine(1997 model) that is chambered in 40S&W. It shoots nice and hits harder than the 9mm. Now that 9mm is all the rage, I doubt that we will see a 40 version from Ruger again?

I doubt it. I'd hold on to that one and get a few extra mags and a couple cases of .40 while it's still cheap.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

I doubt it. I'd hold on to that one and get a few extra mags and a couple cases of .40 while it's still cheap.

^For real, I've seen some screaming deals on .40 S&W ammo.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

Here's a pic of my CX4 with the Aimpoint

20181021_094453_Film3

• BlueHeelerFl
• Oct 21, 2018

And here's a pic of the front post through the Aimpoint

20181021_094316_Film3

• BlueHeelerFl
• Oct 21, 2018

 

[chicharrones]

Here's a pic of my CX4 with the Aimpoint

20181021_094453_Film3

• BlueHeelerFl
• Oct 21, 2018

And here's a pic of the front post through the Aimpoint

20181021_094316_Film3

• BlueHeelerFl
• Oct 21, 2018

A much better view than what I see through my TRS25.

 

[CraigC]

I love PCC's and would always prefer a 10mm or .45ACP over the 9mm for terminal effect but there are scant few of those on the market. I'd be all over something like the Ruger in 10mm or .460Rowland.

I would go with the 10mm Auto in a carbine before I went with a .45, esp if bear was on the menu. A 220 gr hardcast can be driven from a 10mm handgun at over 1100 fps, so from a 16 inch barrel you could probably add another 100 fps or more to that, and that would be putting you in roughly .44 Mag territory. Both the 200 gr and 220 gr 10mms have a higher sectional density than a 230 gr .45 caliber round, which means all other things being equal, they should provide better penetration. Being able to get a 200 gr JHP to over 1400 fps for hunting and defense, and a 220 gr hard cast well into the range of legit .41 Magnum makes the 10mm Auto in a carbine much more potent and useful than a .45 carbine. The .45 just doesn't have the testicular fortitude to compete.

The 9mm operates at enough pressure to give decent bang for the buck from a carbine, so if it was just fun or home defense, or if the price of ammo was a consideration, I might vote for the 9mm. But if you need more power than the 9mm from your carbine, I would vote for the 10mm Auto over the .45 Auto.

The 10mm is very capable and would be an outstanding carbine cartridge but it comes nowhere near the .41 or .44Mag.

I also put more faith in diameter and mass than I do velocity and in that regard, a 250gr .45ACP loading gives up nothing to the 10mm. Any of the autopistol cartridges would be for bear.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

I love PCC's and would always prefer a 10mm or .45ACP over the 9mm for terminal effect but there are scant few of those on the market. I'd be all over something like the Ruger in 10mm or .460Rowland.



The 10mm is very capable and would be an outstanding carbine cartridge but it comes nowhere near the .41 or .44Mag.

I also put more faith in diameter and mass than I do velocity and in that regard, a 250gr .45ACP loading gives up nothing to the 10mm. Any of the autopistol cartridges would be for bear.

Standard ballistics for a .44 Magnum are a 240 gr bullet @ 1400 fps. A 220 gr bullet at 1300+ fps could be considered pretty close to those numbers.

 

[scaatylobo]

Standard ballistics for a .44 Magnum are a 240 gr bullet @ 1400 fps. A 220 gr bullet at 1300+ fps could be considered pretty close to those numbers.

BUT = they don't make a decent capacity one.

 

[BlueHeelerFl]

If Ruger ever makes the PC in 10mm and has in house hi cap mags and the ability to use G20 mags that will be a best seller

 

[Pat Riot]

I would go with the 9mm Ruger PC carbine.
9mm from a 16” barrel has some juice.
I am assuming that you are dealing with black bear concerns. Though that shouldn’t really be a concern, but ya never know.

I have other guns but I have found that my favorite long gun is now my PC carbine. I can break it down and put it into a 20” tall backpack and no one is the wiser. AND1 makes a 20” pack that has 2 long pockets. The stock is 22” but it will fit in the pack. One pocket for the stock / receiver and one for the barrel / forend. Here is a link showing the pack I am talking about but you can find them elsewhere cheaper.
https://www.amazon.com/AND1-Backpac...1+backpack&dpPl=1&dpID=51T-NfYCZkL&ref=plSrch

 

[d2wing]

I don't really get it. Pistol caliber carbines. My scoped 44 mag revolver is more portable and more powerful. But then there is a lot of things I don't get.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

To address the OP's questions if the choice was 9mm or 45 ACP I'd take the 9mm. I've got a Scorpion with an SB folding brace and a Beretta Storm. Neither caliber would be great for Brown/Grizzly bears but the OP didn't specify a species; either round should discourage a Black Bear. If 147gr hard cast Buffalo Bore is stacked 30 rounds deep I'd say you're good to go.

Presumably the take down model would be assembled once the OP got settled in to a hotel room, not when he hears the door begin to splinter.

 

[chicharrones]

I don't really get it. Pistol caliber carbines. My scoped 44 mag revolver is more portable and more powerful. But then there is a lot of things I don't get.

Not a problem with me. Everyone likes different things, whether there's good reason behind it or not.

This guy has fun with a 9mm PCC and he's not even an urbanite.