CCI LR Primers for 500SW?

[arthury]

I bought my first batch of primers for hand loading the 500SW cartridge and so far, the failure rate is around 7-8% out of the first 200 primers.

How do they fail?
The primers did go off with a really weak pop and about 1/3 of the powder was burnt with a lot of fresh unburnt powder left behind.
The bullet was pushed out and sat at the forcing cone of the revolver.

Do you think I bought a bad batch of CCI primers or are they simply not suitable for revolvers?
Any of you gotten consistent results with CCI LR primers for your rifle cartridges?

 

[rcmodel]

Nothing wrong with the primers.
If they went pop & stuck a bullet in the barrel they did what they are supposed to do.

I have used CCI primers in every size for going on 50 years, and have never had one missfire or fail to go off with full power.


I would guess you are using a very light load of very slow burning powder.
And maybe a too light roll-crimp on top of that.

Consiquently, you are not getting enough pressure build-up in the case to get the powder to burn. Then as soon as the primer moves the bullet out of the cylinder, all remaining pressure leaks slowly out of the barrel / cylinder gap and the fire goes out.

rc

 

[cberge8]

In addition to what rcmodel said, you may need to use a magnum primer depending on what powder you are using.

H110 specifically states to use magnum primers. I know many people who have gotten by without them, but have heard that it makes much more of a difference in low temperatures.

 

[arthury]

H110 specifically states to use magnum primers.

That's interesting info.
Where did you see in their website? I wasn't able to find it.

So far, I shot more than 300 rounds of 44 mag of H110 using Federal LP primers and had no issues. It was 100% success rate.

Thanks!

 

[rcmodel]

Just about every reloading manual in print says the slow ball handgun powders like H110/W296 should use Mag primers.

It has been common knowlege for many years.

rc

 

[arthury]

Yes, I just saw it in my Speer manual.
Thanks!

Using Magnum primers would actually shift the peak pressure earlier in time (to the left on the pressure curve) than regular primers. Correct?

 

[Lost Sheep]

Yes, I just saw it in my Speer manual.
Thanks!

Using Magnum primers would actually shift the peak pressure earlier in time (to the left on the pressure curve) than regular primers. Correct?

Seeing as (with the unsuccessful rounds) you are not getting much of a pressure peak from the powder and the only pressure peak you are getting is from a rather short-lived primer pop, I will guess you current peak is as far to the left as you can get. The problem is that it is too low and not carried on by the powder.

But, you are correct if you are comparing the rounds that DID ignite. With magnum primers you will get a somewhat earlier (lefternmore) pressure peak than with standard primers.

What bullet weight, and charge weight of H110 are you using, by the way?

What the other posters have said is true. H110 is a hard-to-ignite powder, requiring a strong, enduring primer flame to get it burning properly.

Lost Sheep

 

[rcmodel]

Or, a sufficiently heavy charge, and a firm roll-crimp to retain the bullet in the case long enough for complete powder ignition and chamber pressure to build up!

rc

 

[arthury]

Batch in question has these data:

Powder: H110
Powder strength: 39 - 42gr (per Hodgdon's Reloading Data Center)
Bullet: Berry's 350gr thick plated
Case: Starline


It's interesting to note that Speer's manual has these totally different data for their 350gr bullet:
Start load Max load
44gr 1598fps 46gr 1631

What puzzled me is that for the same bullet weight, the Speer's start load has more powder than Hodgdon's Max Load !

 

[arthury]

Or, a sufficiently heavy charge, and a firm roll-crimp to retain the bullet in the case long enough for complete powder ignition and chamber pressure to build up!

rc

Yes, the crimp is another variable I intend to change in the next batch.
Here are some pics of how the crimps look like. Do they look alright to you?

 

[BADUNAME37]

As long as there is no bullet jump with four rounds for the last one in the cylinder to fire.

Bullet jump could possibly lead to a kaboom if one or more bullets are able to leave the casing mouth during firing, resulting in spilled powder within adjoining cylinder chambers.

 

[arthury]

As long as there is no bullet jump with four rounds for the last one in the cylinder to fire.

Bullet jump could possibly lead to a kaboom if one or more bullets are able to leave the casing mouth during firing, resulting in spilled powder within adjoining cylinder chambers.

Well, I have tried looking at crimp jumping. First, I tried using factory loads, and surprise, surprise ... even factory loads have crimp jumping after the 4th discharge. The final bullet did walk but not large enough to spill powder. If I keep that last round in the cylinder and let it sit thru another 4 discharges, I'm sure powder will flow.

For my crimps, the final bullet also showed creeping but did not spill powder either.

 

[rcmodel]

No it won't.

Powder can't kaboom if it's spilled in the other chamber mouths and not inside a case inside a chamber.

Anyway, if bullets are pulling far enough to spill the powder, you couldn't rotate the cylinder to fire it in the first place.

rc

 

[arthury]

Can you guys tell from posting #10 if the crimps are OK?

 

[nofishbob]

To the OP

I advise caution with heavy loads of H110 with Berry's plated bullets in the 500.

At lower velocities than what you might be seeing, I had bullets disintegrating in flight, spraying lead. I was using a 10.5" barrel.

For the posters suggesting magnum primers, I thought large rifle primers were specked for most 500 loads. Are you saying that magnum RIFLE primers are needed?

Edit to add: I just checked the Hogdon website....they spec LR primers for the H110 loads they list.
Bob

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Bob is correct, you DO NOT need a magnum rifle primer with H110, a standard rifle primer is just as good as a magnum pistol primer.

Something is very strange if the primer ignited but didn't light all the powder. The above suggestions the pressure is dropping way too fast seems spot on. Make sure your loads are really the amount of powder you think they are loaded with and be sure your primers are seated all the way. I agree Berry's plated bullets are not a good choice in the 500 Magnum. I wish I could have seen what happened when you pulled the trigger.

 

[arthury]

Most of the failures had a really faint pop. Actually, the very first time it happened, I couldn't even hear the primer go off. But, the primers did go off because the bullet got lodged onto the forcing cone, disabling the cylinder from turning.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Is it possible your H110 is contaminated?

 

[arthury]

hmmm ... not very likely. This is a fresh box of H110 I bought recently to test the 500SW cartridges. The powder is dry as I can pour it out and it flows well.
Also, these failures occurred in one other type of new/fresh powder (Ramshot Enforcer)
They were all powered by CCI LR primers.

I'm going to make another batch using only Federal LR primers to see if it makes a difference.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

It's extremely rare to have a bad primer let alone a batch of bad primers but it's not impossible. Please let us know how the ammo with Federal primers fires.

 

[arthury]

Primer: partial ignition possible

I called up CCI and they confirmed that it is possible for a primer to ignite only partially. They also suggested seating the primer deeper.

 

[arthury]

Primer: partial ignition possible

I called up CCI and they confirmed that it is possible for a primer to ignite only partially. They also suggested seating the primer deeper.

 

[357mag357]

I also reload 500 mag using H110 with a standard LR primer. I called Hodgdon to confirm which primer to use with H110 and they said to use the standard LR primer. A few years back I had a few failures like you are discribing reloading 44Mag with H110. I finally contributed the failures to not seating the primers deep enough. How Are you seating your primers? I have had the most success using the RCBS hand primer. I know it takes longer but I would rather take the time seating the primers deep enough than dealing with squib loads. I also agee will Nofishbob about H110 and Berry Bullets. Berry bullets are not meant for magnum velocitys. I have used Power Pistol using copper plated bullets with great accuracy from a hand gun and rifle. Good luck and check those primers.

 

[arthury]

Thanks for the reminder about the primer seating depth. I seat my primers using my Dillon.

 

[bluetopper]

I'll suggest loading a max powder load only. I've loaded many CCI LR primers for my 500 Handi-Rifle with many different makes of powder including H110 and never had a problem.