CCI LR Primers for 500SW?

[Mr.Revolverguy]

You have received a lot of great advise all worth considering. For what it is worth back in 2006 when I first started loading for my S&W 500 and in 2010 when I started reloading for my Alaskan 454 (Alaskan 454 Review)I experienced the same thing with CCI primers. As many have shown they have had a great success with them I did not in these platforms. I have been reloading for 17 years and though not an expert had learned many tricks to the trade like seating depth but to no avail with my problem. I used CCI large Rifle primers for the 500 and CCI small magnum rifle for the 454 and could not achieve the reliability I was looking for, though I noticed both of these platforms would ignite factory ammunition which to me ruled out the firearms themselves.

For these two firearms I changed to winchester large rifle and winchester magnum small rifle and haven't looked back. I am not suggesting CCI to be the problem but reloading at times could produce unreliable results especially for new reloaders or experienced reloaders loading for new platforms. Again not bashing CCI they just did not work for me in these platforms, but for everything else all I use anymore is CCI for the calibers I load for, 38spl, 357mag, 44mag, 45colt along with a host of rifle cartridges.

So my suggestion is don't be afraid to buy small quantity at first to find out what works perfect for you, then buy in bulk. This is my technique when reloading for a new caliber. By the way those same Large Rifle primers which did not work for the S&W500 worked great for my M1 Garand in 30-06. So it surely wasn't the primers.

 

[Strongbad]

I've been loading for the 500 S&W since it first came out and I've spent more time jacking around with primers for that round than anything I've ever loaded. In my case the issue is due to a mainspring that is just a hair on the puny side. The weak mainspring combined with CCI primers, which are about the hardest out there ended up giving me a bunch of misfires. Per a tip from a ballistician friend at Sierra I worked my way through the different brands of primers, starting with CCI, then Winchester and finally ended up settling on Remington 9.5's. The Remingtons give me consistent ignition with no drama.

Switching the primers should be easy, so I would start there. I've seen an entire pack of primers that was bad, so it can happen. It could be that is what has happened to you. Also IMHO, ditch the H-110. It's nasty stuff anyway. I load it in 357 but don't screw with it in anything else. LilGun performs very well in the 500 S&W and I've had excellent results with it. AA9 gives me a little less velocity but still gives excellent accuracy, better yet both of them are cleaner than H-110.

 

[arthury]

Success finally:

Tested the latest batch and the variables that were changed:

1. Switched from CCI LRP to Federal LRP
2. Crimp increased
3. Case flaring reduced significantly

Same Powder: H110
Powder strength: 40gr - 43gr
Bullet: Hornady XTP HP 350gr
Number of shots: 35
Discharge failures: zero

Conclusions:
Primer choice: CCI LRP may not yield consistent discharge for the 500SW, unless you pay extra attention in seating the primer deeply. No such issues with Federal LRP.
Cleanliness: when the cartridges are discharging correctly and optimally, there's hardly any soot and dirt left on the cylinder and chamber throat. Everything seem to be cleanly burnt off and there's only a thin layer of soot on the gun. What a nice feeling when things are going right.
43gr of H110 too hot: when I looked at the discharged primer cap, it looks a tiny bit flatter on its edge than the rest with lesser load. May be it is showing signs of a hot load. How far have you guys gone up using 350gr JHP?

Thanks very much for all the help!

 

[CGT80]

Ahh..........I found you OP. I thought your story sounded too familiar.

I already posted on the other forum for the OP, but for the others: Hogdon calls for LR primers for the 500 and LRM for the 460 when loading 296/110. Some rounds require mag primers with 296/110 and some don't, according to the hodgon website load data. I have also read that slow or ball powders may require mag primers. Are there any hard fast rules for igniting 296/110?

I could see the cci primers being right on the edge of working. I use federal 215 LRM primers for the 460 with 45 grains of win 296 under a hornady 240 xtp mag bullet. None of them have failed me.

OP:I'm glad you at least found a primer that does work for your 500. Good luck with your load development.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Hogdon calls for LR primers for the 500 and LRM for the 460 when loading 296/110. Some rounds require mag primers with 296/110 and some don't, according to the Hodgdon website load data. I have also read that slow or ball powders may require mag primers. Are there any hard fast rules for igniting 296/110?

When a magnum primer is called for when using W296/H110 is a Magnum Pistol Primer. A rifle primers is just as hard or harder than a magnum pistol primer and just as hot. Again, there is really no reason to use a magnum rifle primer with W296/H110, magnum strength primers are only necessary when using pistol primers.

The reason rifle primers are called for in the 500 Magnum has more to do with the high pressures generated by the caliber than lighting off the powder. The rifle primer has a much thicker cup which can withstand the high pressures better than a pistol primer, even a magnum pistol primer.

 

[FROGO207]

^^^ I think ArchAngelCD understands it the same as I do.
I load for a NEF Handi Rifle in 500 S&W. I have had NO problems with primers igniting with H110 or with any other propellant/primer for that matter either. I am always suspect of the firing pin strike when problems of this type happen. If you can rule out primer seating problems this always seems the most common answer found. I am also happy that the OP persevered and found success with his loads. IMHO the Federal primers are more "sensitive" and work with lighter strikes in a variety of firearms. As to the thought of the slightly flattened primers, my experience shows Federal has a slightly softer/thinner-? metal used with respect to CCI hardness so I would expect the slight flattening you see with no great concern. SO as long as there is no cratering or extreme flattening found you are GTG I feel.

 

[CGT80]

So...If what you guys say is true, why does hogdon specifically say to use a LRM or large rifle magnum primer in the 460 case with 296? Your info makes sense, but why wouldn't the powder manufacturer list the same?

 

[hentown]

So, the .500 S&W takes rifle, instead of handgun primers?? I didn't realize that, not that I ever intend to reload ..500 S&W. LR and LP primers, of course, aren't interchangeable, as are sr and sp primers.

 

[FROGO207]

Some of the older brass took the pistol primers. All the cases that take the Rifle primers have an "R" on the headstamp signifying the primer pocket has the depth to use a Rifle primer safely. Otherwise use a pistol primer or don't reload that brass if you feel it could be unsafe with pistol primers.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

So...If what you guys say is true, why does hogdon specifically say to use a LRM or large rifle magnum primer in the 460 case with 296? Your info makes sense, but why wouldn't the powder manufacturer list the same?

Like I have said in many threads, they are getting lazy and use one primer for everything in that caliber and every powder they load. Hodgdon is using a LRM primer with all the powders they are loading in the 460 Magnum (including TrailBoss) and LRP in everything they use for the 500 Magnum no matter what powder they load. They didn't choose and pick, it's a blanket use. I can't explain let alone understand why they do anything anymore!

 

[56hawk]

How do they fail?
The primers did go off with a really weak pop and about 1/3 of the powder was burnt with a lot of fresh unburnt powder left behind.
The bullet was pushed out and sat at the forcing cone of the revolver.

I just had this happen to me. Ran out of Federal and Winchester primers so I grabbed some CCI #200 primers. Loaded a 275 grain plated bullet and 44 grains of H110. When I pulled the trigger all I heard was a click. Opened the cylinder and the bullet was stuck in the forcing cone. The powder was unburned and actually compressed into a hard cylinder.

I have shot thousands of rounds through my 500 without any problems before this. This was the first time trying CCI primers in the 500. Also the first time trying these bullets. Not sure which is to blame, but I'm not going to load anymore until my shipment of Federal primers shows up.

 

[arthury]

Don't dump your CCI LRP, I believe they work fine on actual rifles, just not consistent with SW500.

 

[56hawk]

Don't dump your CCI LRP, I believe they work fine on actual rifles, just not consistent with SW500.

Yeah, I probably didn't word that very well. I originally got CCI LRP primers to load 7.62x54R after my SVT40 slam fired on me with Winchester primers.

 

[Shrinkmd]

I have worked up loads using the CCI LR primer, and so far I've done fine with Trail Boss, Unique, and Power Pistol. I've had slightly higher SD with 2400, but they still went off fine. The velocities seem lower than what is listed on the Alliant reloader guide, however. And I have the 10.5" barrel, so they should be closer.

Now maybe my chronograph was just having an off day (although I chronographed some 38 special and 357 first to make sure and it worked fine) but using 300MP gave very erratic results. I started at 45gr and worked up to the listed 49, using Starline once fired brass, Berry's 350gr plated bullets. My first load were very sooty, clogged up the cylinder holes. By the time I got to the 48 and 49gr charges, things were much cleaner. Velocity maybe 60 or 70 fps more than the max load of 2400. On the good side, the Berry's were completely stable, no falling apart or whatever up to 1634fps.

See my Power Pistol/2400 data here:http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=657707

I think I will have to get some magnum primers to play with, especially considering how Alliant's data says they used the Fed 215 for their work up. That big densely filled case of 300MP must be too much for a standard CCI LR primer?

I think for plinking I will stick with the Power Pistol load or 2400 for now. It was economical, and had the best numbers. 1463fps is not full power, but it's still plenty of fun. And I made a great target (4 out of 5 touching in the center) at 15 yards offhand with the 40gr 2400 load, so I'm doing something right...

 

[Certaindeaf]

Have any of these guns that fail to ignite CCI primers been "lightened" or something?
I use CCI SR for my Hi-Power and it goes bang every time. Then again, it's unmodified and has about the strongest mainspring ever.. it'll do the #2 pencil test ten feet straight up.

 

[arthury]

Nope, mine was factory, I did not touch the internals at all.
So far, after switching to Federal LRP, I am getting 100% success rate.

 

[56hawk]

Have any of these guns that fail to ignite CCI primers been "lightened" or something?

Mine is completely stock. And the primer went off, it just didn't ignite the powder charge. I'm wondering if CCI primers just don't burn hot enough to light H110.

 

[AABEN]

A good tight crimp will help you. TIGHT

 

[codefour]

I load for the .460 not the .500.. I too was curious after reading this thread. I called Hodgdon and Alliant and asked for their thoughts.

Hodgdon stated the .460 NEEDS LRM primers with all powders. They advised they used Winchester in their load development too. I asked if I could CCI LRM and he stated they could be substituted but certain revolvers do not strike hard enough to light em off.

Alliant state they used Federal LR primers in all 2400 and 300-MP load development. The rep said magnum was not necessary for those powders. Interestingly though, he advised using SPM primers with all 2400 loads in .357 mag. He stated the Longer but thinner case can benefit from the mag primer.

The Alliant rep also said CCI primers may be too hard for revolver strikes to ignite fully. He told me to try CCI (since I already had thousands) but if they did not work to try softer Federal or Winchester.

I jus thought this might help clear a few things up.

Oh. I loaded some .460 with 300g XTP mag with 39.0g H110 with CCI LRM and I had no problems.