CCW Blackpowder pistol?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Voodoochile, I don't disagree with you at all really. I have 4 flinters that go boom every time, and when hunting I leave them loaded as is, for the season if i don't get shots.
A .75 Bess, .62 Nor'West Gun, .62 pistol I built from nearly scratch, and a sweet like .40 Kentucky. None of these found in stores..

I have 2 cap and ball, ROA, and a EMF 1970's 1860 Colt Army in .44.
Yes 5 rnds in these cap and ball only for me.. Hammer on the empty for me. No half cock notches either.

So I understand you. I know better than to fire bp off at the end of a day, unless I fired the gun, and loaded it again and must clean it. Like you my charges can last a year or untill I fire them and always they go boom.

I missed entirely the fact this isn't based on law, but then I don't understand since a cww is all based on law. Ok so no law.. no one cares that laws tie all this as one to ccw.

STILL the bad guy is likey to be armed with more than a wheel gun, and he will have magazines and can reload real fast, A lot faster than I can load any BP Gun no matter how fast I can go, and I can go pretty fast. Maybe 7 shots a minute in the Nor Wes gun and faster if I must with no patch. In order to do that I need paper catridges..

More and more the bad guy has a 30 rnd mag.. Still want the BP gun?

More and more, oh I can't go there... Hell yes i can, the jury wants to hear a familar word when it comes to a round.

So if you shot a bad guy with Joe Schmoes rocket wiz lightning bolt glow in the dark 12 ga round you are busted! Why because it isn't the same or close to the same as what police use.

About the police. I got stopped in Mass in transit and i was still dressed in 'SKINS' coming home to NH from an event in PA. On modern guns, not even Mass and NY can over ride Fedral law and i am free as a bird to go from any place with a modern gun to a event and back to a legal place.

I don't know it, but I figure this applies to BP guns as well. My .62 cal flinter was on the seat UNLOADED in plain sight, and my Nor West Gun was in the pick up racks in plain sight. Next to the pistol was a 15.5 inch 1/4 thick real honest to goodness old antique BOWIE.

I stopped off I-91 and Rt 2 where ever that is, in Mass, on my way home. I got food and water for my horse and the restaraunt was delited to have me spend money, and more than delited to give me 2 pails of water for the horse.

When I was done, I pulled out of their private parking lot and didn't get the trailer straight, heading back to I-91 north, and was BUSTED.

The cop all but chit himself when he saw the cab, but he somehow knew how I was dressed. He had me spread on the hood and entered the cab with out even asking, and then began to to meddle with the pistol trying to open it at the breech. He wouldn't hear one word, and the next thing he did was place the bore muzzel end first to his EYE!!!! Making a real long story shorter, I demanded to be let go or arrested after 45 minutes of being detained. More than several times he was so fixated on finding and discovering some reason to make his bust stick that I could have shot him with his own Glock, had I any mind to do so. I had been on the road 12 hours and had 5 more to go, so I finally just got sick of him and made my demands. Arrest, Badge Number, and SPCA.

This particular cop had no bee's wax and probably around even his Glock!

Had he shot himself thru the head with that .62..... :what:

BTW I do have NH version of CCW, and I have several guns for that job..

In the case of this thread.. well I could see no real problem with either of my cap and ball guns stopping a man.. Would I even consider it when I have better guns suited to the task? NO way...

I guess if some how all modern brass cat'ridge guns got the grinder by the Feds, but the Feds still left BP guns for us to use, then I wouldn't have much choice.. I am aware that I can trust all my BP Guns. So then if this applies somehow, I would get a clone or a real colt in 36 as my main carry...
 
Macmac:
I understand your point of a BG having a high cap firearm compared to a C&B Revolver loaded 5 or even my M1911A1 loaded 7 but remember most shootings happen with maybe 5 total rounds fired, if you need to reload to make the situation safe that the first 5 - 10 shots didn't do then you are in a state of war & any pistol is definitly under gunned.
 
This kind of question comes up every now and then, and the same thing happens.

People like to state that cap-n-ball revolvers are still firearms. Fine. It may be that way in your state, but not every state is the same. Texas specifically exempts them from the definition of firearms and then never mentions them again.

People state that they are considered firearms if carried for CCW. Again, your state may say that. Mine keeps the same definition of firearm the whole time.

Now, it is true that even if it is exempt, a jury or the local law may not see eye to eye. It probably isn't a good idea to be the historic guinea pig to find out how the court system interprets it.

People talk about the reliability of cap-n-ball revolvers and modern cartridge revolvers. Modern revolvers may have an edge, but I would be more concerned with the ability to work a single action under stress. That and the primitive sights on most CNB revolvers aren't ideal for a stressfull situation.

People say that you don't have enough shots. They seem to think that all bad guys carry autos with extra mags or assault rifles. These are mostly the same people who think the assault weapons ban doesn't work because criminals don't use them (and they don't for the most part). Most self defense situations are resolved with fewer shots than your cap-n-ball revolver are capable of. That doesn't mean that it is a bad idea to carry something that can hold a few more.

The idea that you should look at what a jury might think is a good one, and it probably varies by where you live. You have to make the decision of whether or not they will think you are playing cowboy and whether or not they will think that is a bad thing.

If you have weighed all these things and think a CNB revolver is still a good choice, then a few people have given some good advice on which ones to choose. I don't have experience with any of them, so my recomendation is a Walker...
 
Let's play a little game.

Let's assume it's 1863, and in the area where you live a law is passed. It requires that all firearms carried by private citizens must be carried concealed. You can carry whatever you wish, but it must not print, and it must not be brandished except in self defense.

Now.

What black powder gun would you use as a CCW? Keep in mind, getting shot with a .32 back then could be much more potentially lethal, given the state of medical technology.

jm
 
i have to do the research. i believe here in CA its still considered by the state to be a firearm. Most other states conclude it as antique or black powder arms. There is an old thread somewhere here on THR on this subject it is a very good thread as soon as i can find it i will revive it.
 
straw hat those are cool. just good luck loading them.

NOW what would be cool to do is buy a revolver then get another barrel. So you have a snub nose and then another one. For the other barrel. Drill it out to remove the rifiling. Then you can shoot regular round balls with one barrel. Then load it up EXCEPT. load it up for shot gun. say you have a .44 load up powder wads maybe 2-3 depending on thickness. then shot then another wad on top. That would be the revolver to have. from a 3-4 inch barrel that would be deadly.
 
Just Because

I have posted most of this before - I own modern and black powder firearms. I have over the last three decades carried and shot C&B revolvers. They were some of the first guns I owned, and throughout the years have only grown in my appreciation. When I was in my early 20s, they were all I could afford to shoot that was not a .22. I've hunted small game with black powder pistols and carried them regularly in the woods and on the farm. Mine are Second Generation Colts. Yep, that's pre-ban elephant ivory!!! They are accurate enough to do anything I want, and are reliable enough for me to be comfortable with. Some days dependent on what I am doing, I will have a C&B revolver with me. Truth is, most of the time, CC is as much a matter of assurance for those carrying as anything else. Guess, one would need to weigh out the threat - where I'm from, there havn't been too many shoot-outs at the SONIC over hamburgers.
 

Attachments

  • Three Colts.jpg
    Three Colts.jpg
    300.5 KB · Views: 38
Concealed in 1863? (2) .36's in Colt with shorter barrels, maybe 3 " and no ft site at all. 10 shots.. This should suit out to 25 yards, and so be effective in defence.

I am not the bet pistol shot that ever walked Earth and I know I am going to miss sometimes in stress.

So far in anger I have only needed one shot to settle the matter, but that shot was from a 12 ga.
..................................
PRM, I am begining to not really like you... "Yep, that's pre-ban elephant ivory!!! " I am so very jelouse!
 
scrat straw hat those are cool. just good luck loading them.
Click to expand...

The 1860 is loaded off the frame as is the Walker, (only had it to the range once since I got it, The barrel and rammer will be restored)


NOW what would be cool to do is buy a revolver then get another barrel. So you have a snub nose and then another one.
Click to expand...

I did that too, what a pain it the butt, easier to get the second revovler.

For the other barrel. Drill it out to remove the rifiling. Then you can shoot regular round balls with one barrel. Then load it up EXCEPT. load it up for shot gun. say you have a .44 load up powder wads maybe 2-3 depending on thickness. then shot then another wad on top. That would be the revolver to have. from a 3-4 inch barrel that would be deadly.
Click to expand...

Only if you have the proper tax stamp, smoothbore revolvers are not legal.

For some reason that escapes me, a smoothbore single shot muzzleloader does not attract the same attention as the smoothbore revolver.
 
Tomahawk674 What kind of fps would you get of that 1860 with such a short barrel?
Click to expand...

Not sure, never cared enough to find a chronograph and try it. I do know there is enough velocity to reach out as far as I care to shoot. And if I need a little more oomp, I can use 777.

There is a difference in felt recoil between 777 and fffg gunpowder. The 777 comes back much harder. So based on that I am guessing it to give a bit more velocity. Not real scientific but it sounds good to me.

As long as the bullet carries to the target, I really don't care about velocity.
 
I never knew that even if the revolver was a C&B one you still could not have it a smootie by law.

Just think, if say your Walker shortie was smooth bored .44 caliber, & you loaded it up with BB's or even #5's it'd still only have an effective range of 7 - 10 yards but within that range it'd be quite a fight stopper.
 
Voodoochile I never knew that even if the revolver was a C&B one you still could not have it a smootie by law.
Click to expand...

I am not saying my memory is perfect but I remember discussing this back in the 70's and at that time it was considered a bad idea. Doubt if anything has happened to cause a change.
Voodoochile Just think, if say your Walker shortie was smooth bored .44 caliber, & you loaded it up with BB's or even #5's it'd still only have an effective range of 7 - 10 yards but within that range it'd be quite a fight stopper.
Click to expand...

At 7-10 the round ball is quite a stopper! Especially with a full charge.

The trip to the range was a fun one. After several cylinder down range, I reloaded and went to put the sights on target and found the front sight had parted company from the barrel! Looks like the new one will be dovetailed in place.
 
Black Powder:

Don't know the particulars as far as statute..., but I asked the question about my Pedersoli Howdah having 11 inch smoothbore barrels (20X20 gauge). Modern shotguns as you are aware have barrel and overall length restrictions. I was told the legal restrictions did not apply to black powder.
 
I was told the legal restrictions did not apply to black powder.
Click to expand...
And the authority who made this statement was....? Were they speaking for federal, state or local regulations or all three?
 
I am not a lawyer and if I am not clear on answering your question please bear with me.

I had some questions when I saw the Pedersoli Howdah coming out because it had 11 inch barrels and was a side by side .20 guage (in the model I purchased).

My information came from several sources: Dixie Gun Works sold me the gun and was the first to tell me that the BATF guidelines for shotguns do not apply to black powder. I have to assume they know what they are talking about since they are selling the guns along with several other vendors who handle Pedersoli products. This make sense in that any smooth bore black powder pistol is essentially the same type of firearm

I did a search on the internet and found several sites that have information on sawed off shotguns. All of them I went too said that muzzloaders are exempt from the Federal Law. The following link has a synopsis of the National Firearms Act of 1934 which defines terms still in usage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act. There are also a number of sites where this act can be read in its entirety. The Act specifies that by the definition a shotgun fires a shell: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/nfa.htm

(d) Shotgun. -- The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a single projectile for each pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell.

The act also gives the verbiage for antiques, muzzle loaders and reproductions:

Antique firearm. Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.



I am sure there are probably some states that have added restrictions? But, generally speaking black powder is in a different category.
 
Last edited:
i believe here in CA its still considered by the state to be a firearm
Click to expand...


No Scrat BP Revs or Rifles are not concidered a firearm in CA. I just walked out of a local "The Gun Shop" this week with a 1859 Sharps Armi Sport .54 paper cart. Cav Carbine, 2 lbs. of black powder, and 3 tins of caps...the Powder i went to buy cost me $612.xx :O)
Celebrated with a BBQ
11-12-08_1454.jpg


SG
11-21-08_1607-1.jpg
 
I keep mine loaded at all times just as I do all my pistols and rifles, but I would only use the C&B pistol out side only because it may start a fire in my house. By the way most CC guns are j framed revolvers. Then again I carry a 44S&W with a 3" barrel. Loaded with a 240gr bullet and in from of 8 grs unique makes a hell of a kill gun. black powder guns just weigh to much. I carried a weapon in my job, and that weigh was a pain.
 
That's because you were only wearing one gun which made you unbalanced and caused you to lean to one side.
If you strapped on more than one BP gun, the weight would be more balanced and you'd hardly even know that you were wearing them.
Problem solved! :D
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Blackpowder newbie questions
Replies
10
Views
780
unspellable
U
M
  • Locked
Traditions Make It Yourself Blackpowder Weapons
Replies
11
Views
2K
BHP FAN
B
mcb
  • Locked
Blackpowder recommendation desired (not a substitute)
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
Driftwood Johnson
Driftwood Johnson
L
  • Locked
list of blackpowder cartridges
Replies
16
Views
5K
Jim K
J
J
  • Locked
The "Newspaper Loophole"
Replies
5
Views
537
Warren
W
Back
Top