CCW Blackpowder pistol?

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Colt Commander, right? Surprised they seem so similarly sized, though I know the 1911 is thinner. But that's 4.25" of barrel compared to what, about 2.5? Not much velocity out of it with so little barrel.

I've seen someone who made a belly gun like this claim it took 3.5" to burn a standard powder charge. I'm guessing it was with a ball so 35-40 grns?
 
Actually an Officers Model Enhanced. The magazine well and backstrap makes it look bigger. 3 1/2" barrel.
The snub has 2" of barrel.
With 30 grains of 3F half of it burns outside the barrel on that snubby. It has hardly any recoil. I bet that if you shot at 3 guys 10 feet away you'd bun them all bald on the head though!!!! Snicker!
 
This is from the South Carolina (my state) code of laws http://www.sled.sc.gov/SCStateGunLaws1.aspx?MenuID=CWP

The first section excludes antique firearms in the definition of handgun but it still calls them "firearms".
The wording second section appears to include them in the definition of a weapon.
The third section tells about the penalty for carrying a concealed weapon.

I posted this to show that we need to be careful about perceived loopholes because what looks like a loophole in one section of the law may be closed in another section based on how it is interpreted.

SECTION 16-23-10. Definitions.

When used in this article:

(1) "Handgun" means any firearm designed to expel a projectile and designed to be fired from the hand, but shall not include any firearm generally recognized or classified as an antique, curiosity, or collector's item, or any that does not fire fixed cartridges.

SECTION 16-23-405. Definition of "weapon"; confiscation and disposition of weapons used in commission or in furtherance of crime.

(A) Except for the provisions relating to rifles and shotguns in Section 16-23-460, as used in this chapter, "weapon" means firearm (rifle, shotgun, pistol, or similar device that propels a projectile through the energy of an explosive), a blackjack, a metal pipe or pole, or any other type of device, or object which may be used to inflict bodily injury or death

SECTION 16-23-460. Carrying concealed weapons; forfeiture of weapons.

(A) A person carrying a deadly weapon usually used for the infliction of personal injury concealed about his person is guilty of a misdemeanor, must forfeit to the county, or, if convicted in a municipal court, to the municipality, the concealed weapon, and must be fined not less than two hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not less than thirty days nor more than ninety days.

(B) The provisions of this section do not apply to:

(1) A person carrying a concealed weapon upon his own premises or pursuant to and in compliance with Article 4, Chapter 31 of Title 23; or

(2) peace officers in the actual discharge of their duties.

(C) The provisions of this section also do not apply to rifles, shotguns, dirks, slingshots, metal knuckles, knives, or razors unless they are used with the intent to commit a crime or in furtherance of a crime.
 
i like to carry my Naa super companion in 22 cap and ball! super small and easy to carry I bet it'll work within 5-7 feet plus waiting on the companion model to show up this week! :)
 
As a CCW instructor this thread interests me . Lots of opinions expressed . I own and shoot 5 bp revolvers .

I teach my students that the best gun to have is the one you have in your hand when you need it . In some jurisdictions the only legal option may be a BP gun. In such cases the original question is valid . As to the effectiveness of bp guns , I have seen modern autopsy photos that prove it .
I see some rather harsh comments regarding the use of a BP compared to a modern gun . Let's not forget that these guns were designed in a far more dangerous era then we live in . While I would not being to compare them to my 45cal XDS I might think twice with some cheap modern guns I know of . The ignition system may be primitive but the overall engeneering is not .

Ironhand
 
Wyoming Law considers a BP revolver a firearm. Even though they are not regulated beyond the Federal restrictions in Wyoming. Under the Wyoming Law a resident may carry a BP concealed no permit needed. A Non-Resident carrying a BP revolver must have a valid and acceptable CCW.
 
In the 1880s their was minimal "police presence " outside of the urban areas . If you got into trouble there was no 911.
Statistical analysis is only valid for crimes that were reported , but the west was not the dangerous area in that era . As you pointed out it was the urban areas.

Ironhand
 
I have a couple of the Pietta 1860 Colt Army clones that are the cut down version with the rounded birdshead grips.
I wouldn't hesitate to carry them as a CCW.
They're accurate. Plenty of power.
Are there better choices? Of course. But they'll do the job.

Here in Texas when carried they're considered a deadly weapon.
 
The movies have clouded the history of the American West. There was law on the Frontier. The U.S. Marshals Service was in charge of civil law on the Frontier. They had their own Territorial Prisons. These Lawmen were very astute at tracking down the "Bad Guys".
There was the U.S. Military with post and Forts across the West. The Pinkerton Detectives and 100s of Livestock Detectives were on the Frontier. There were Sheriffs and Vigilante groups. Frontier prisons were unable to hold all of the criminals. The law violators were routinely transferred to a prison in Illinois. The Frontier was closed in 1898.;)

http://www.wyomingterritorialprison.com/
 
Just to keep this on-track: there are countries where a blackpowder pistol is legal and easy to obtain, whereas cartridge firearms are more difficult. Were I to move to mainland Europe, this might well be germane.
 
I was at the range this morning and chatted with a fellow BP enthusiast. He came over after we were done shooting to show me his Navy Arms Colt pocket pistol. Nice looking gun. He apparently carries it in his coat pocket and it fits there nicely, so it's definitely done. He also seems to hit what he's aiming at with it.

I get the distinct impression that there are different interests/concerns represented here so far:
  1. "is BP legal as CCW?"
  2. "is cap-and-ball BP reliable / carry enough rounds / have enough stopping power?"
  3. "BP/not BP as a way-of-life"
It's interesting to consider and weigh how you personally feel about each of those categories. They are by necessity very subjective. I also think there is a 4th one that isn't really mentioned which is:

4. The "I can't afford a (decent) cartridge gun" group

Here's how I personally weigh these:
  1. Not an issue, I have a CCL and I would not carry even a loaded BP cap-and-ball pistol without one.
  2. I'm comfortable (within limits) with the reliability of my C&B pistols. Five rounds is plenty and I *know* there is sufficient stopping power for the situations I'm concerned with.
  3. I like cap-and-ball BP as well as modern cartridge guns.
  4. For the cost of an excellent cap-and-ball pistol, it is hard to find a new piece-of-crap cartridge gun. Best I can find is an Armscor .38 special for $240. The used market is a different story and you have to know what you're doing.
I would say that I am personally comfortable enough with the reliability of my cap-and-ball pistols, and in my skills, to consider carrying one for defense. I'm able to make that choice based on the perceived threats I'm concerned about and on the historical and anecdotal evidence that exists on the efficacy of the loads these guns carry. Your mileage may vary. BTW, I am shocked at how many .357 snub owners that I see at the range who can barely hit the black on their targets. Ignition system and propellant choice does not seem to be the key factor of failure for them.
 
Like Lagerratrope said about hitting their target.
At our private range an ex-cop friend emptied his service revolver at a shave cream can. I handed him my 1860 which he had never fired and first shot blew up the can. Just saying a good pointing-shooting gun gives me the confidence I need, if you empty the gun and only make holes in the air ?????
 
Dog Soldier said:
Humm? Are you serious? The country was more violent in the late 1800s compared to today? Gees! There are more people killed in Chicago in one year than in the history of Dodge City etc. We live in a far more dangerous world today.

http://alt.obituaries.narkive.com/yC5V3vDF/how-many-murders-in-dodge-city-ks-in-its-worst-year-1878
Click to expand...


I totally agree. The vast majority of people were to busy scratching out an existence and trying not to starve to death from year to year. Everyone knew how to use a rifle and had little enough as it is and if you stole from them they were coming after you with a vengence.
I'm currently reading, "The Vigilantes of Montana" a great original source providing a lot of information on the 'Vigilance Committees' that made sure everyone stayed in line.
 
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Very true. The Western movies we all like are pure fantasies. Working "Drovers" were not gunfighters. No one met the U.S. Marshall on the street for a fast draw. Guns were carried in coat pockets and sashes. Anyone dressed in cowboy cloths of today wearing a brace of pistols carrying a rifle would have been laughed out of town. But childhood fantasies are fun to revisit as an adult. ;)
 
Back in the day carrying more than one BP revolver was not unusual. There is a greater failure factor due mostly to the percussion caps. The caps are easily damaged and can simply fall off during firing. The spent caps can jam and lock up the weapon. There were all manner of cartridge conversions done in the 1870s.:)
 
We made annual trips to remote Ontario fishing camp for several years in a row. We were plagued by bears. Bears in the bait. Bears in the trash. Bears had chewed the seats of the atv's that we hauled our gear with.

Since Canada has a handgun law...i thought perhaps I could carry my cap & ball and it wouldn't be restricted.

The game warden up there assured me that would be a good way to go to jail.
 
the fact that so many have expressed the opinion...that only a fool, or an idiot would consider using a Bp as a CCW....yet the fact that so many will trust their lives to a "pocket gun".. so small....so under powered..so unreliable....that are worthless past ten feet...it makes me laugh.....
 
Dog Soldier said:
The movies have clouded the history of the American West. There was law on the Frontier. The U.S. Marshals Service was in charge of civil law on the Frontier. They had their own Territorial Prisons. These Lawmen were very astute at tracking down the "Bad Guys".
There was the U.S. Military with post and Forts across the West. The Pinkerton Detectives and 100s of Livestock Detectives were on the Frontier. There were Sheriffs and Vigilante groups. Frontier prisons were unable to hold all of the criminals. The law violators were routinely transferred to a prison in Illinois. The Frontier was closed in 1898.;)

http://www.wyomingterritorialprison.com/
Click to expand...

Except for Robert Leroy Parker and the "Hole In The Wall" gang. I see the smiley.
 
The Hole in the Wall is a number of canyons on the Middle Fork Of the Powder River in the Big Horn Mtns. Wyoming had achieved State hood and the Frontier had closed when Sundance and Butch/a run away Mormon boy from Utah rustled cattle in Wyoming. They did a few bungled robberies.
By 1910 there were telephones and gas lights in Cheyenne. The Wild West was shutting down.An outlaw named George Currie was actually the founder and boss of the Hole in The Wall Gang.He was shot rustling cattle near Thompson, Utah. The yarns about Butch and Sundance are mostly that. The first airplane had flown in 1903 Butch and Sundance were killed in 1908?
I spent much of my younger days in the Hole in the Wall. My son broke out as Cowboy up there when he was 12 years old.:)
 
a bp revolver can be made as reliable as any cartridge revolver. but yu have to practice and basically get to know it like our forefathers did. they lived with those guns at their side everyday. the more rounds you shoot the more yu learn..

clean nipples,dry powder,,good caps, its going to fire if the hammer hits the cap hard enuf.

i once read a account of a gunfighter, wild bill i think, fired his guns empty every morning and cleaned them and reloaded before he went out in public.

and read other accounts of properly loaded bp revolvers that fired 50 years after loading. some say load and drip wax on caps and cylinder mouths.
 
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