CCW Blackpowder pistol?

[ridgerunner1965]

one problem of bp reliability is that we are often not shooting the same quality of revolvers that our forefathers did. the orig colt and rem guns were of a much higher quality than anything you can get now except for the roa.

if we had a chance to inspect a colt back in the day ill bet the quality of manufacture would blow you away.. people took pride in ther work back then and the guns they made lasted a 100 years.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Powder and lead was was expensive on the Frontier. The U.S. Army allowed very little practice. Transporting lead by wagon was very expensive.
Bill Hickok and others did not shoot everyday. They pulled the bullets and replaced the powder and the conical bullet. The percussion caps were not always reliable. That is why multiple guns were carried. So the legend goes.

 

[Armored farmer]

Those of us who have spent a good deal of time and effort shooting cap&ball extensively over a long period of time, aren't too shocked by the thought of possible use as a ccw or defensive weapon..

 

[dickydalton]

Said I didn't usually carry one, never said I never would.........

 

[Dog Soldier]

I have owned and shot BP revolvers for over 50 years. I would never assume they are capable of matching a modern high velocity semi auto handgun. I would suggest that you enter an IPSC combat pistol match with your 1860 Army. That may change your mind.

 

[webrx]

What about a 1858 or 1851 or any of the various other BP revolves with a conversion cylinder, you would have your BP revolver looks and size with Cartridge reliability - I would not hesitate to use that for CCW or home defense if it was all i had. Now, I have modern revolvers and Autos, and I also have BP and SAAs, the only problem I really have with BP as a home defense or CCW is the exposure of the percussion cap to be honest. While I cant say this is a probem, it is the thing I think about most when I read these types of threads.

Just my .02

 

[midland man]

Well I've yet find to anyone who will stand in front a BP...any caliber

lol!!

 

[midland man]

I carry my NAA companion everyday plus I also have the companion magnum as well but the little companion is smaller and easier to carry its the 22 cap and ball revolver I use 4f goex powder with them little 22 bullets from Naa at 30gr they work pretty good!

 

[dickydalton]

OK, let me rephrase my answer. This thread is titled CCW Black Powder Pistol and in this photo you can see the CCW ramifications of the thread. The LCP on the right is considered one of the least powerful CCWs to ever carry and still has more power than the Pocket Navy that dwarfs it. The SP 101 that is dwarfed by that Dragoon out powers the Dragoon and fits in the same pocket as the LCP. It doesn't have to be about missfires and such when the gun is too big to carry concealed.

Now, I also showed you my "Avenging Angel" next to my Officers ACP in another post. The size was reduces a bunch but......... a .454 round ball at 300 FPS isn't my idea of protection.

 

[midland man]

OK, let me rephrase my answer. This thread is titled CCW Black Powder Pistol and in this photo you can see the CCW ramifications of the thread. The LCP on the right is considered one of the least powerful CCWs to ever carry and still has more power than the Pocket Navy that dwarfs it. The SP 101 that is dwarfed by that Dragoon out powers the Dragoon and fits in the same pocket as the LCP. It doesn't have to be about missfires and such when the gun is too big to carry concealed.

Now, I also showed you my "Avenging Angel" next to my Officers ACP in another post. The size was reduces a bunch but......... a .454 round ball at 300 FPS isn't my idea of protection.

wow that seems really slow should be able to see the ball flying at that speed!!

 

[dickydalton]

wow that seems really slow should be able to see the ball flying at that speed!!

I haven't chronoed it because I don't want 15 grains of burning BP hitting the chrono. 2 inches of barrel isn't enough, believe me. At 10 yards the ball s went about 2 inches into a pile of mason sand.

 

[Stormson]

My 3" snub nosed 1860 is more reliable then my .380. Im guessing that a .457 ball backed by 30-35grs of 777 is gonna be moving quite a bit faster then 300fps. It is certainly powerful enough for the FEET, not yards, that a self defense scenario is likely to play itself out...

 

[Noz]

Just remember: There was a reason that metallic cartridges became popular.

 

[Jim Watson]

There is a series of British mysteries in which the gunsmith/noseyparker carries a flintlock because of the difficulty, now impossibility of getting a modern handgun. But remember, it's FICTION.

 

[rodwha]

OK, let me rephrase my answer. This thread is titled CCW Black Powder Pistol and in this photo you can see the CCW ramifications of the thread. The LCP on the right is considered one of the least powerful CCWs to ever carry and still has more power than the Pocket Navy that dwarfs it. The SP 101 that is dwarfed by that Dragoon out powers the Dragoon and fits in the same pocket as the LCP. It doesn't have to be about missfires and such when the gun is too big to carry concealed.

Now, I also showed you my "Avenging Angel" next to my Officers ACP in another post. The size was reduces a bunch but......... a .454 round ball at 300 FPS isn't my idea of protection.

 

[B1rd]

Question folks. Another subject. I happen to own a Remington caliber .36 dating back to the civil war. The overall pistol is in pretty good shape, with the exception of the cylinder in the area of the timing star that allows cylinder rotation and locking. I have been told at last year Las Vegas antiquate show, that during the era, cylinders are interchangeable. I have no idea if this is true or not. The rest of the gun is in great condition. If anyone has any idea where I can obtain a replacement cylinder, please let me know.

 

[dickydalton]

My 3" snub nosed 1860 is more reliable then my .380. Im guessing that a .457 ball backed by 30-35grs of 777 is gonna be moving quite a bit faster then 300fps. It is certainly powerful enough for the FEET, not yards, that a self defense scenario is likely to play itself out...

All I know is that about 20 grains of a 30 grain charge is burning after it leaves the 2" barrel on my snub. That isn't speeding that ball up at all. In most of the charts I've seen a cap n ball loses about 100 FPS per inch removed and if you start with 7-800 FPS with an 8" barrel there isn't much left at 2 or 3". I also would admit that if you are only a few feet apart the attacker may quit just to put the fire out that the extra powder starts on him!
But, each to his own and I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas!

 

[44 Dave]

I have started carrying my new Uberti '62 Police. At 1 1/2 lbs, 5 1/2" barrel and 20 grs. of DuPont FFFg it is a pocket pistol with a punch .
I have shot it enough to have it feel like an extension of my hand. Then this is "woods carry" CCW

 

[rodwha]

All I know is that about 20 grains of a 30 grain charge is burning after it leaves the 2" barrel on my snub. That isn't speeding that ball up at all. In most of the charts I've seen a cap n ball loses about 100 FPS per inch removed and if you start with 7-800 FPS with an 8" barrel there isn't much left at 2 or 3". I also would admit that if you are only a few feet apart the attacker may quit just to put the fire out that the extra powder starts on him!
But, each to his own and I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas!

100 fps is an awful lot. I've seen it more to be about 20-25 fps per inch. Check out the differences where Mr Beliveau used a 5.5" and 7.5" ROA. You'll see as little as 8 fps and as much as 87 fps difference in the 2" barrel reduction.



If you are only getting 700-800 fps with an 8" barrel you are using a very weak powder.

I tried quoting and responding to an earlier post but something fishy was going on. Fixed it...

The .36 Pocket model with a 100 grn bullet and Swiss 3F got an average of 180 ft/lbs. That's on par with a .380 ACP. And a Dragoon loaded with a proper energetic powder and bullet will outpace the .45 ACP, which is considered equivalent to the .357 Mag 125 JHP. Your stance seems skewed by using weak powder and a ball.

And there is something very wrong if you are getting just 300 fps from your snub nose.

A fellow had a 3.5" snubbed Remington. I asked a lot of questions and one was where he wasted powder (he tried the sheet trick). He found it to be 30-35 grns. I don't recall which nor do I recall the projectile, but I recall figuring that was about what my load was (30 grns 3F and a 170-195 grn bullet) as I've considered whacking a couple of inches off myself.

 

[Stormson]

All I know is that about 20 grains of a 30 grain charge is burning after it leaves the 2" barrel on my snub. That isn't speeding that ball up at all. In most of the charts I've seen a cap n ball loses about 100 FPS per inch removed and if you start with 7-800 FPS with an 8" barrel there isn't much left at 2 or 3". I also would admit that if you are only a few feet apart the attacker may quit just to put the fire out that the extra powder starts on him!
But, each to his own and I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well Dicky!

It could just be me, but a 100fps loss from each inch seems like a lot. Could you be using too small a balls??? Even a microsecond extra burn time vrom a really tight ball might help?

Id try swiss or 777 as well. I would never carry this puppy for defense loaded with any standard powder. Have even considered using pyrodex 4f, but for now its 777...

 

[dickydalton]

Sorry I brought it up guys. Shoot away and carry what you wish.

Merry Christmas!

 

[dickydalton]

100 fps is an awful lot. I've seen it more to be about 20-25 fps per inch. Check out the differences where Mr Beliveau used a 5.5" and 7.5" ROA. You'll see as little as 8 fps and as much as 87 fps difference in the 2" barrel reduction.



If you are only getting 700-800 fps with an 8" barrel you are using a very weak powder.

I tried quoting and responding to an earlier post but something fishy was going on. Fixed it...

The .36 Pocket model with a 100 grn bullet and Swiss 3F got an average of 180 ft/lbs. That's on par with a .380 ACP. And a Dragoon loaded with a proper energetic powder and bullet will outpace the .45 ACP, which is considered equivalent to the .357 Mag 125 JHP. Your stance seems skewed by using weak powder and a ball.

And there is something very wrong if you are getting just 300 fps from your snub nose.

A fellow had a 3.5" snubbed Remington. I asked a lot of questions and one was where he wasted powder (he tried the sheet trick). He found it to be 30-35 grns. I don't recall which nor do I recall the projectile, but I recall figuring that was about what my load was (30 grns 3F and a 170-195 grn bullet) as I've considered whacking a couple of inches off myself.

Mr. Beleveau was testing ROA's with conical bullets and Tripple 7 powder in #6, I believe. Apples and oranges.
I have never chronoed my snub, as I said. I don't have "Bad" powder. I have shot a cylinder full of balls into a huge pile of mason sand and the balls are practically laying on the surface. 38 Specials fired into the same pile are usually 8 inches in. It's your life, live it as you wish.

 

[rodwha]

Quite frankly I see no reason to want to carry a BP gun for protection if a more modern firearm is available unless one lived out in the country where bad guys aren't behind every other tree or bush.

However I must say that my two revolvers, after finding caps that fit properly, have been 100% reliable with maybe 1000 shots between them. Reliability isn't my concern. It is the smoke and the subsequent shots. I could expend my 7or 8 round magazine from my old 1911 before the hammer was set again for a third shot. And a HP expands better and more reliably than a soft lead FN or RN.

Both of my BP arms are reliable enough, accurate enough, and powerful enough to trust as I use energetic powders and WFN bullets.

 

[rodwha]

I posted it so that all of the figures can be seen at the end of his video.

How is T7 and a conical apples and oranges when comparing to modern stuff??? Seems illogical to want to protect yourself with the weakest stuff you could put together and a good way to skew it by providing apples to oranges...

I never said you has bad powder. But if those are the figures you are getting you obviously aren't using an energetic powder or you have issues with your gun or projectile or something.

 

[rodwha]

Even a ball used with weak powder is formidable as seen in this old military testing with an 1860 Army. The ball gloes clean through the bone and gel block despite traveling at just 600 and so fps. But then it acts like a FMJ which isn't exactly the best projectile, which is why I prefer a WFN known to create a much better wound channel even if it doesn't expand.