CCW not honored

[highdesert]

Went to the Fair

I talked it over with my wife. We agreed that since we really wanted our daughter to experience her first fair, we'd go early but still "boycot" by not spending any money. We left early before the riff-raff showed up.

I went in unarmed, unless you count a Surefire. I'd like to be the type to allow myself to be wrongfully harassed / tresspassed / arrested / etc but in the end I don't want to play games with LASD and don't want to put my family through that.

I heard several people in line complaining about the security. The screeners even announced "no cuticle scissors", which my wife had to explain to me are little bitty things.

I have no problem with a private entity on their own property setting whatever rules they want (e.g. Disney). I'm not sure I agree that a private vendor renting a taxpayer funded facility should be able to trample on someone else's rights though. If I rent a city building for a function I don't expect to be able to post a sign saying "no people from other ethnic groups than me."

Ed, they only have my first name, and I was very polite, so I don't think I'm on a troublemaker list. Good points about how we California gun owners have a very defensive posture. I don't hunt but drop me an email if you ever want to go do some plinking in the desert.

The San Deigo case was the one the lawyer I contacted referred to. I couldn't believe they didn't even want off duty and retired LEOs to be able to carry.

Thanks to everyone for the responses.

highdesert

 

[ID_shooting]

We are on out last weekend of our local fair. As you can guess, it is posted and they have detectors up. Guess what, we aren't going. Funnt, same building they have gun shows in is suddenly off milits to legal CCW becuase a bunch a of carneys are in town.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

About the only thing you can (if you choose to do it) is to get a lawyer and sue them.

You are not going to get the answer you want from anyone in authority at the fairgrounds, and this is pretty much "them" making up their own rules.

"They" will try to get away with anything they want, and if a concerned citizen doesn't stand up to correct the problem, then they will get away with it.

Hopefully you are some multimillionaire who can afford to take on the system - justice seems to work best for those who can afford to pay (or those who are famous, like OJ Simpson)

 

[Rumpled]

highdesert,
The AV fair is most likely (I don't know for sure) on state land run by a local board under the auspices of the state.

Actually, I just looked it up - from their own website (I provided the bolding)
The Antelope Valley Fair Association was incorporated on September 12, 1938 with the following signers of the incorporation papers: George Rush, Lloyd Mikelson, Jesse Romine, D.R. Jaqua and Tom Foley. After operating as the Antelope Valley Fair Association for three years, and having full community cooperation in erecting the original buildings, it was deemed advisable to become an Agricultural Association under the Division of Fairs and Expositions, State of California. With the help of many individuals and organizations of the Valley working with State Legislators to make possible, on September 13, 1941, the 50th District Agricultural Association became operative.

That makes it a part of a state agency. The land should also be state land. They contract to have rides and concessions and such; but it is certainly a public run event.

I know you've already gone, but this might be helpful if you have any follow up contact with anyone.
Maybe you could pose this question to the fair board?
I understand this has been a big issue in Ohio also.

 

[highdesert]

rumpled,

Thanks for the info. I agree it seems to be a public entity hosting the fair. I had also posted on the californiaccw.org forum and got some good info there.

A similar case happened in San Diego, except there the "ban" included off-duty LEOs. (Copy of article below) The LEOs sued and later settled for the right to carry after signing a release saying they wouldn't drink, etc while carrying. Their lawyer said something to the effect that the Ag Association "policy" does not pre-empt state law. I couldn't agree more. Of course the settlement does nothing to address civilian CCW holders, because nobody cares about such a small minority.

Everything I have found tells me that the local Ag Assocation is making up rules that preempt state law and LA Sheriff's Dept is enforcing those rules for them. It sets a really bad precedent, but California is known for such a thing.

I'd like to do something about it, but realistically there are much bigger battles to fight here.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/05/26/news/breaking/52605115328.txt

Cops urged to skip fair over gun policy

By: Wire Reports

DEL MAR - The president of Escondido's police union says he will urge the city's officers to boycott the 2005 San Diego County Fair because of a policy barring entry by off-duty law enforcement personnel carrying weapons.

Paul Woodward, president of the Escondido Police Officers Association, sent a letter yesterday to the Del Mar Fairgrounds board expressing his concern over the weapons ban, which was implemented for the first time last year by the 22nd District Agricultural Association, which oversees the fairgrounds.

Fairgrounds spokeswoman Linda Zweig said today the policy was created to provide a "safer environment for families," but Woodward said the policy actually imperils safety.

"As president of the Escondido Police officers Association, I will be encouraging our members and all San Diego law enforcement and their families not to attend the 2005 Del Mar Fair," Woodward wrote.

He said professionally trained sworn officers now have the authority to carry weapons across state lines in the United States and even aboard commercial aircraft.

"I find it difficult to believe that in this age of post-9-11 terrorism and with threats of terrorism constantly looming over us, you would make such policies," Woodward wrote.

Timothy J. Fennell, general manager of the 22nd District Agriculture Association, which oversees the Del Mar Fairgrounds, sent a letter May 6 to the San Diego County Chiefs Association reminding all local law enforcement agencies of a policy that bars off-duty officers from carrying weapons into the county fair, which runs June 10 to July 4.

The wording of Fennell's letter was ambiguous, appearing to vaguely suggest that the policy was inspired by the sheriff's department.

"At the request of the Sheriff's Department, I want to take this opportunity to ask the County Chiefs Association to remind all the county's law enforcement agencies that the 22nd District Agricultural Association ... has a policy of now allowing any weapons into the fairgrounds during the run of the 2005 San Diego County Fair," Fennell wrote in the letter.

"The San Diego County Fair uses metal detectors to screen all its patrons and the district's weapon prohibition policy also precludes off-duty officers from carrying a firearm into the fairgrounds," he wrote.

Asked to elaborate today, both sheriff's and fairground officials said the sheriff's department did not originate the policy and that the department had only asked the the fair board to remind other law enforcement agencies of it.

"The sheriff's department did not ask us to implement this policy. This is something the 22nd District Agricultural Association decided to implement," Zweig said. "The sheriff's department simply asked us to inform other agencies in the county that we are implementing the policy again this year."

Zweig said armed deputies in and out of uniform patrolling the county fair provide sufficient security.

"We're simply implementing a policy that's in effect at other family venues such as Disneyland, Magic Mountain, Legoland, Dodger and Angel stadiums and other locations," Zweig said. "It's a safer alternative all the way around."

Sheriff's spokesman Glenn Revell said the decision of whether off-duty law enforcement officer should attend the fair unarmed is a personal choice.

"I understand the the policy will make some of my law enforcement colleagues uncomfortable, but they need to make the personal choice of whether that will preclude them from attending the fair or not," Revell said.

"Some officers may be offended by it, while others will attend without hesitation, but this is not a policy that we created."

 

[Chuck_]

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