Cheney shoots hunting buddy (multiple threads merged)

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Pilgrim said:
Involuntary manslaughter in most jurisdictions, if not all, is a felonious killing as a result of an unlawful act or gross negligence and there was no intent to kill on the part of the accused.

I don't see the circumstances of this shooting the result of an unlawful act nor do I see gross negligence.

If Mr. Whittington should die there may very well be grounds for a wrongful death civil suit against the Vice-President.

Pilgrim
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Pilgrim...see my above post. Negligent homicide must include "gross negligence"...Involuntary Manslaughter need only conclude that the death was caused by "carelessness or recklessness". Legal definitions are tricky which is why it is so easy to sue anybody for anything. :)
 
According to our news cast this morning, Cheney didn't even have a hunting license. When asked about it, his staff said it was an oversight and he'd mail a check in. I wish that would work for every regular joe. I would love to go hunting and then, if caught, offer to pay for a license and be A-OK. Around here, you'd be fined and probably loose your gun.
 
TexasSIGman said:
I agree, I'm just wondering in general. What if this was one of us instead of the VP. In general, it's sort of an odd thing. Certainly a crime, but worth prosecuting?
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The only difference would be that it wouldn't make the news if it were one of us. This story isn't news as far as I'm concerned. It was an accident caused by carelessness...just like most, if not all, other hunting accidents. The only reason we even heard about it is because it was the Vice President holding the gun. :rolleyes:
 
It's not ALWAYS the shooter's fault when someone gets shot; sometimes the shootee has to bear some responsibility for the accident.
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No offense, Carl, but I don't think I want to go hunting with you anytime soon. The way I was raised it's always the shooter's responsibility to make certain that the backdrop is cleared before shooting.
 
Lobotomy Boy said:
The press should be all over this. It's a huge deal.
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No...it's not a huge deal. It's a hunting ACCIDENT. Was Cheney careless? Absolutely. Is it newsworthy? Not unless the man dies (which is highly unlikely).
 
To Early

Its a little early to get worked up on who to blame for the accident. For now let's just hope and for those of you who are religious pray that Mr. Whittington survives this tragic accident. If you does happen to pass away, then we can get discuss Mr. Cheney's options.
 
duckslayer said:
It should, plus prosecution for involuntary manslaughter just like it would if I had accidentally shot my hunting partner.
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In Texas? Unless you were reckless or drunk I doubt it....
I've talked to several folks upset over this & asked what if it was a baseball game at a White House event and it was a line drive to the skull resulting in a fractured skull and come?
They usually say well that would be an accident then.
It's really because a gun was involved that we have such a issue.
The whole notification of the press thing? Don't get me started...
CT
 
saberstitch said:
According to our news cast this morning, Cheney didn't even have a hunting license. When asked about it, his staff said it was an oversight and he'd mail a check in. I wish that would work for every regular joe. I would love to go hunting and then, if caught, offer to pay for a license and be A-OK. Around here, you'd be fined and probably loose your gun.
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Sorry, but the VP had a $125 non-resident hunting license. The issue is over a new $7 stamp that has been in existence for 5 months. Texas isn't fining anyone over the lack of this stamp, since it is so new that most hunters don't know anything about it.

I can see how it played out: The VP's team inquired about a hunting license for him, and they paid for what they were told that he needed. However, nobody told him about this special $7 fee, so he didn't pay it. If he had known, he would have paid.
 
According to our news cast this morning, Cheney didn't even have a hunting license. When asked about it, his staff said it was an oversight and he'd mail a check in. I wish that would work for every regular joe. I would love to go hunting and then, if caught, offer to pay for a license and be A-OK. Around here, you'd be fined and probably loose your gun.
Click to expand...
Actually he had two of the three licenses // stamps necessary. The third stamp was only recently imposed. IIRC other stories say TX game people were waving penalties for failure to have the third stamp during program startup.

What happens to Cheney should exactly what happens to Joe Sixpack who does the same thing. No more, no less.
 
Car Knocker said:
It's not ALWAYS the shooter's fault when someone gets shot; sometimes the shootee has to bear some responsibility for the accident.
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You're right. If Jerry Falwell hadn't popped up on my TV screen about 12 years ago, I likely wouldn't have put a 230 gr FMJ through the middle of my Curtis Mathis at three AM on a Sunday morning.
;)
Biker
 
Fletchette said:
Bradys comment on Cheney

Yes, this is the same Sarah Brady who straw purchased a rifle for her son in law.
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Correct me if I am wrong but a "straw purchase" is when a qualified buyer purchases for someone NOT qualified.
How was buying a gun as a gift for her qualified son a "straw purchase"?
Don't get me wrong, I will rejoice when she dies, I just don't want us to stoop to spreading stories like they do....
CT
 
The only reason we even heard about it is because it was the Vice President holding the gun.
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Dude, that makes it news. You have a heart attack, no one but your friends, family, and co-workers will ever hear about it. Vice President has a heart attack, that's news because he's (drum roll please) the Vice President.

You accidentally shoot someone, it will make the local news. You'll be on the third page of the local section of your paper and maybe even get a 30-second spot on Action News at 5 on your local station if your lucky. And you're not even the Vice President.

I'll repeat one more time for those of you with terminal cranial rectosis: the vice president of the United States shooting someone in the face is a legitimate news story. You might even say it is a story for the history books. Long after people have forgotten that Al Gore was boring, that Dan Quayle was simple-minded, that George Herbert Walker Bush was anything other than a one-term president, that Walter Mondale and Nelson Rockerfeller even existed, and even after they've forgotten that Spiro Agnew resigned in disgrace, people will remember that Dick Cheney was the vice president who shot a dude in the face.
 
Sistema1927 said:
Sorry, but the VP had a $125 non-resident hunting license. The issue is over a new $7 stamp that has been in existence for 5 months. Texas isn't fining anyone over the lack of this stamp, since it is so new that most hunters don't know anything about it.

I can see how it played out: The VP's team inquired about a hunting license for him, and they paid for what they were told that he needed. However, nobody told him about this special $7 fee, so he didn't pay it. If he had known, he would have paid.
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Once again, the adminstration can blame the whole mess on faulty intel. Now, on to Iran.
:neener:
Biker
 
Tho I'm convinced Cheney will resign this year - either health problems or the CIA outing will push him out - it won't be over an accidental shooting. Bush needs to get a successor in place and let them establish a good track record, and for that to happen Cheney goes this year. I think the timing will be before the mid-term elections this fall, flushing a liability that the public has trouble liking with might help the Republicans hang onto a solid majority in Congress.
 
Involuntary manslaughter in most jurisdictions, if not all, is a felonious killing as a result of an unlawful act or gross negligence and there was no intent to kill on the part of the accused.
Click to expand...

And...didn't have the proper stamp on his license. Good thing for him it isn't an "unlawful" act, right?

http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001996219

The relevant parts from that article:

Meanwhile, Texas state wildlife officials reported Monday that while Vice President Cheney had purchased a valid non-resident hunting license, he did not obtain a required "upland game bird stamp."

A warning citation--which carries no fine or penalty--will be issued to Cheney, which state officials described as "routine." Cheney's office said he would promptly send in the $7 for the stamp. However, as the Dallas Morning News headlined on its Web site, he was, on Saturday, "hunting illegally."

The "Game Law Violated" box was checked, with the violation listed as section "P&W Code 43.652." According to an online rundown on that sectin, this relates to the lack of the upland bird stamp. The text follows: "Except as provided by Subsection (b), a person may not hunt a
migratory or upland game bird in this state unless the person has acquired a migratory or upland game bird stamp, as applicable, issued to the person by the department."
 
saberstitch said:
According to our news cast this morning, Cheney didn't even have a hunting license. When asked about it, his staff said it was an oversight and he'd mail a check in. I wish that would work for every regular joe. I would love to go hunting and then, if caught, offer to pay for a license and be A-OK. Around here, you'd be fined and probably loose your gun.
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That's not true. He had a hunting license. What he didn't have was the $7 "Upland Migratory Bird" stamp that Texas Parks & Wildlife now requires (as of September 2005). The whole stamp thing is just ridiculous. They are making it where your hunting license is basically useless unless you have a stamp. Every year they add a new stamp that you have to have.

It was a minor oversight that could have been just as much the fault of the clerk who sold him the license as it was his own fault. Whether a person gets a fine or a warning for not having the stamp is up to the Game Warden. You certainly wouldn't lose your gun over it unless you were also exceeding the bag limit or otherwise breaking game laws.
 
I just defended Sarah Brady. I need a bath. Yuck.
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No you didn't. You defended the facts.

If the Bradys said what is reported, shame on them for a distortion of the facts. No matter what side of the political fence we reside on, it is always better to defend facts than to dance and spin and exaggerate based on one's agenda. Too, too much of that crap is what drives both the politics and governing of our country. :barf:
 
Frandy said:
Uh, where did you read that all of those folks want him to die? Give me a break. I have friends and business colleagues across the political spectrum and not one over the last couple of days has expressed such a notion. Jokes about it? Sure. But not what you claim.
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I spoke to a woman here in Austin this morning I have known over 10 years. I said "did you hear the lawyer Cheney shot has had a aheart attack". Her face lit up and she asked "Is he dead?" with glee......:(
CT
 
Lobotomy Boy said:
I'll repeat one more time for those of you with terminal cranial rectosis: the vice president of the United States shooting someone in the face is a legitimate news story. You might even say it is a story for the history books. Long after people have forgotten that Al Gore was boring, that Dan Quayle was simple-minded, that George Herbert Walker Bush was anything other than a one-term president, that Walter Mondale and Nelson Rockerfeller even existed, and even after they've forgotten that Spiro Agnew resigned in disgrace, people will remember that Dick Cheney was the vice president who shot a dude in the face.
Click to expand...

Quick, what Vice-President was in a duel with one of our most famous politicians and statesman? Yeah, I see your point :neener:
CT
 
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