Cheney shoots hunting buddy (multiple threads merged)

[AirForceShooter]

it's ok he's being watched in the hospital??

are you kidding?? Do you know how many people die in hospitals every year. It has to be the most dangerous place on the planet.

Now here we go. VP Cheney resigns. Condoleeza Rice gets the stop. Now she's the incumbent!!!
See how it works.

AFS

 

[Biker]

They're learning. They're adapting. Will 2A rights be an issue for them in the mid-terms? Are they building a launching pad?
Biker

 

[bogie]

A man was brought to an ER with gun shots, short of it all, bullets in body and holes MUST equal an even number. Doctors ended with an odd number. Could not locate other "bullet". One doctor stated a "thesis"--"...the bullet penetrated the femoral artery and submarined through the body, which is where the man had pain". X-rays revealed a bullet past the heart. It had submarined through the heart with ZERO damage. Lucky man.

Don't get your medical data from television...

1) You puncture the femoral artery, and things get very messy, very rapidly, generally followed by a gradual cooling to room temperature, and the need to buy multiple cases of air fresheners.

2) The femoral ARTERY is sorta downstream from the heart/lungs. For something to hit the artery, and then make it back to the heart/lungs (while the patient magically doesn't bleed out), it better be pretty darn small. REALLY darn small. Like, it ain't gonna show on an x-ray.

Sounds like the TV folks were assuming that a bullet was dangerous, in and of itself... You know, like, you could just throw one at someone, and they'd like, die!

 

[Ryder]

It's not ALWAYS the shooter's fault when someone gets shot; sometimes the shootee has to bear some responsibility for the accident.

I don't know why this should be hard to understand. There are rules. If you break the rules you risk your safety. If I dress up in a deer costume and go running through the woods on opening day are you responsible for shooting me? How could you possibly know anyone was stupid enough to do that? The rule is that people are not supposed to do that.

If you expect your hunting partner to be in a specific spot but they change their mind and don't tell you about it then you are not responsible. I've seen this happen to others but I've never seen anybody get mad when nearly hit by bullets because they know it is their own fault.

Woods conceal things well in comparison to how far a bullet travels but you get used to it otherwise nobody would ever pull a trigger. You can't possibly know every thing.

Cheney knew his target, it was a bird. It doesn't matter what was beyond his target if this guy got between him and the target. That argument makes about as much sense as bringing up politics.

 

[Braden]

it's ok he's being watched in the hospital??

are you kidding?? Do you know how many people die in hospitals every year. It has to be the most dangerous place on the planet.

Now here we go. VP Cheney resigns. Condoleeza Rice gets the stop. Now she's the incumbent!!!
See how it works.

AFS

Ahhhh...I smell conspiracy. It was all part of the plan!!

 

[Jubei]

I just defended Sarah Brady. I need a bath. Yuck.

Don't forget to wash your mouth out with soap...or at least bourbon.

Jubei

 

[bogie]

Guys, some of us are missing something...

Let's be careful out there... These guys have hunted all their lives. You walk in someone's blind spot, you're not where you're supposed to be, and it could be you.

How many of you have stories about being at a range, and out of the corner of your eye seeing Bubba or Son of Bubba scurrying out while the range is hot so he can adjust his target?

 

[SHavis]

<snip>
I'll repeat one more time for those of you with terminal cranial rectosis: the vice president of the United States shooting someone in the face is a legitimate news story.
<snip>

Is that just because you say so? (I had to say that...:banghead: )

What is newsworthy today seems to take the que from what is sensational. Yes, is it interesting and morbidly funny(funny-wierd) that the VP peppered his hunting buddy and people will read & watch coverage. But does it effect anyone other than the parties invloved? No.

Because he is the VP, mention of the account is relevant, but I don't believe it deserves the heavy coverage it's getting.

Here in Texas, I have an aquaintance who was sprayed with #8 shot (and hospitalized) under very similar circustances while Pheasant hunting. No one was charged with anything (but sworn statements were taken), however the fault was placed on the injured due to failure to follow proper protocol. As far as I know, they still hunt together, but are even more careful to stay in line. No one made the news that day.

Still I have to ask myself: would I rather go hunting with Cheney or go to Iraq? Iraq. I could shoot back there!

 

[Herself]

The lesson is, nobody is immune to "stupid." ...But that doesn't make it any more excuseable.

Understandable? Yes. And what a comfort that must be for the guy in the hospital right now, wondering when the docs will let him go home and thinking, "If I'd just called out, and not worried about putting the birds to flight," not to mention the one thinking, "How could I have not seen him...?" instead of thinking about his job!

Not seein' any real positive outcome for any of the principals.

--Herself

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The lesson is, nobody is immune to "stupid." ...But that doesn't make it any more excuseable.

Understandable? Yes. And what a comfort that must be for the guy in the hospital right now, wondering when the docs will let him go home and thinking, "If I'd just called out, and not worried about putting the birds to flight," not to mention the one thinking, "How could I have not seen him...?" instead of thinking about his job!

Not seein' any real positive outcome for any of the principals.

--Herself

I think I agree. I could have been any of us this happened to (well, any of this that find sport in shooting farm raised, hand released, crippled fowl in a controlled setting)...most of the stories you hear are when seasoned experts get careless due to mindless repetition and make mistakes. The NRA class says "Never say Never" when talking about making a mistake yourself. I wonder how most of us would deal with this...would we have immediatly shown remorse and apologize or go into cover and self preservation mode? I think some level of self preservation is understandabe. it is just human nature.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Quick, what Vice-President was in a duel with one of our most famous politicians and statesman? Yeah, I see your point

Why that would be... Aaron Burr, one of the few vice presidents who is ever mentioned in high-school history books. Why is he mentioned? Because he shot a man. Otherwise he would be as obscure as Elbridge Gerry, George M. Dallas, John C. Breckenridge, Levi P. Morton, Garret Hobart, James S. Sherman, Charles G. Dawes, Henry A. Wallace, Alben W. Barkley, the aforementioned Nelson A. Rockerfeller, and just about every other vice president in the history of the United States of America. Fact of the matter is, when the vice president shoots someone, people tend to remember a little thing like that. The vice president shooting a man in the face is "news" to all but the most self-serving, dogmatic ideologues.

You guys are in deep, deep trouble when the best defense you have for the incompetent boobs to whom you have irrevokably hitched your wagon is to claim that when they shoot someone in the face, it's not news. I'm guessing that there are less than 1,000 people on earth who would buy that line of B.S., and fully 25 percent of them are participating in this thread.

 

[Herself]

Tsk, all this mention of Vice-presidents, and nary a word for another scion of Texas?

"John Nance Garner is best remembered for his assessment of the vice presidency. The office, he reportedly sneered in 1932, "isn't worth a pitcher of warm spit." The quote may be apocryphal, and even credulous historians think he referenced a different bodily fluid. [...]"

He was FDR's Vice President, after having been Speaker of the House and a sort of a foe to expanding income tax. "As FDR's number two, he went on to play a vital but low-key role in the New Deal, advancing the Roosevelt agenda among old colleagues on Capitol Hill.

"But FDR and Garner had a falling out during the president's second term. Uncomfortable with the president's agenda, Garner was appalled by some of FDR's more blatant grabs for power, including the court-packing proposal of 1937. Garner made a halfhearted stab at challenging Roosevelt for the 1940 nomination, but he soon retired to Texas. There he lived out the rest of his long life, dying in 1967 two weeks short of his 99th birthday."*

I'll always admire him for his assessment of the office of the Vice-President, even though he was a New Dealer.

No word on him shooting anyone, either on purpose or by mistake. Can't have everything.

--Herself

* http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readi...2f0f3e3e24ba8e9f85256f87006a6f67?OpenDocument

 

[JimJD]

Uh-oh....

"Hunter Shot by Cheney Has Heart Attack"

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administration

I don't think this development has been brought up yet...
sorry if it was already.

 

[gunner03]

According to MSNBS I mean NBC, in texas if your not DRINKING AND HORSE PLAYIN YOU AIN'T HUNTING.I don't know the guys name that said it I was serfing at the time. I had no idea you texans where that irresponsible!!!

 

[bogie]

Pleze lern too spel.

I've had several people talk to me about this - the majority think that the guy was hit with a solid bullet - seems most folks out there don't even know what a shotgun shell is, or how it works.

 

[Merkin.Muffley]

Uh-oh....

"Hunter Shot by Cheney Has Heart Attack"

http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administration

I don't think this development has been brought up yet...
sorry if it was already.

That's being reported by most sources as a "minor" heart attack. The guy is 78 years old - having health problems isn't unusual at that age.

 

[JimJD]

Ditto Bogie.

I had to explain the differences to some co-workers.
Most thought it was a single, solid projectile from a centerfire or rimfire rifle.
A couple thought buckshot or a slug was used... Cleared that up as well.

 

[shecky]

That's being reported by most sources as a "minor" heart attack. The guy is 78 years old - having health problems isn't unusual at that age.

He didn't have that many years left anyway.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

That's being reported by most sources as a "minor" heart attack. The guy is 78 years old - having health problems isn't unusual at that age.

The heart attack in question was the direct result of one of the shot pellets (or BB's as they are being called) entering his heart via his bloodstream. No small deal...

 

[Biker]

That's being reported by most sources as a "minor" heart attack. The guy is 78 years old - having health problems isn't unusual at that age.

Yup. Now he can add lead poisoning to his list of ailments.
Biker

 

[RonC]

I'm surprised at all the defense that is going up for Cheney. We must remember that, whether we support his political views or not, he is a POLITICIAN. I mean that as an almost profane word.

I was taught that, when hunting bird or mammal, to be aware of everyone around me at all times. Cheney violated that major rule, even if the victim contributed to the incident. Also, The High road is the place where I always read of unintentional gun discharges that cause mishaps to be NEGLIGENT rather than ACCIDENTAL. Cheney committed a negligent act due to not being aware of those around him. It was a big mistake and a guy is in the hospital because of it. People who support our particular political views can and do make mistakes. There is no need to 'spin' the incident.

If he is an honorable man (I carefully didn't use the word 'politician' because it would be an oxymoron), Cheney will own up to his negligence and not try to have his PR people spin it.

Ron

 

[Merkin.Muffley]

I'm surprised at all the defense that is going up for Cheney. We must remember that, whether we support his political views or not, he is a POLITICIAN. I mean that as an almost profane word.

IIf he is an honorable man (I carefully didn't use the word 'politician' because it would be an oxymoron), Cheney will own up to his negligence and not try to have his PR people spin it.

Ron

Honorable man?

From 1963 to 1966, Cheney received five deferments: four student deferments while attending the University of Wyoming and one for having a child. "I had other priorities in the '60s other than military service," Cheney told a reporter in 1989.

I'm sure those 58,195 names on that wall in Washington had other priorities too - but they were honorable and did serve their country when asked. I know they were because a number of them were my friends. I don't consider Mr. Cheney to be honorable, not even using the most generous definiton of the term possible.

 

[Biker]

That sticks in my craw too, Merkin. Also one of the many problems I had with Clinton.
Biker

 

[Cosmoline]

I still haven't heard a first-person direct account of how the shooting took place. If, as has been reported, the victim came up behind Cheney and he swung around for a six o'clock shot, then Cheney is totally to blame. I don't care what you're hunting, if you're in a group and you're not restricting yourself to a 10 and 2 cone, you're asking for trouble.

If the fellow was coming in in FRONT of the group saying nothing and got hit while concealed behind a bush, then that's another matter.

But I absolutely place the burden of proof on the SHOOTER--someone we have yet to hear from. You are responsible as an absolute matter for every single bullet or pellet that leaves your firearm.

 

[desertplinker]

The simple realities are that the media is spinning the story due to the timeframe for disclosure on the incident. There seems to be less discussion in regards to the actual events of the shooting itself.

Will the antis use this against guns, most certainly. Luckily, there has been no idiotic contortion of the facts in that Cheney was shooting a shotgun. I've yet to hear the dreaded "semiautomatic assault _____" that usually comes from these types of incidents. Fortunately the VP was engaged in a legal activity utilizing sporting means (assume a high dollar over and under).

Hunting upland birds and other game on the run is a teamwork event. Safety is the responsibility of the hunting party. Hunters often make bad decisions in regards to positioning and thus end up in the line of fire. Quail fly low and fast. Shooting is engaged in close quarters and any good shot will swing through the bird pulling the trigger. Many ignorant arguments are being perpetuated by people who do not know the realities of hunting. This and other hunting accidents occur in non-controlled environments. It's likely that both parties may be at fault. I can attest that anyone with any time afield upland hunting has been shot at and most likely shot directly. When I was 10, due to my own moving too fast and beyond the hunting line, was shot. A minor incident that resulted in a little blood and a few pellets picked from the skin and clothes.