Cheney shoots hunting buddy (multiple threads merged)

[JohnBT]

I just saw a post on trapshooters.com that said he used a "PERAZZI Brescia 28 gauge shotgun". Didn't see the choke mentioned. JT

 

[CalamityJane]

exclusive interview with VP Cheney tonight on Fox..

I just heard on Fox news that Britt Hume has interviewed the VP and that will be shown tonight on Britt's evening news, at 6 pm eastern time. Just in case anyone is interested.

 

[bowfin]

Of course Cheney also made a terrible strategic mistake by not reporting this to the press immediately, turning a disasterous personal situation into a disasterous political situation.
QUOTE]

Maybe he was invoking the "Ted Kennedy Rule". You get 24 hours after you shoot or drown somebody before you have to report it.

"Lord, I apologize for that one there..." (Larry the Cable Guy)

 

[Specialized]

ABSOLUTELY!! VP Or Not

Were you ever trained to whip around in a 180 swing and fire at noises BEHIND you? I don't think so.

Team effort is fine, but the bottom line is each of us is responsible for the rounds we send down range. Unless the man was hidden behind a bush making "cooing" noises or dressed like some giant bird, I don't really see much room for excuses here.

The question I want answered is--was the man BEHIND or IN FRONT OF the line? The press seems too ignorant to press this question home. They're more concerned about getting scooped by a small local paper. Armstrong seemed to say he came up BEHIND Cheney, whereapon Cheney wheeled and shot him. If this is true, then Cheney should be facing charges right now. It's completely and totally unacceptable to swing around and fire off the line like that. It endangers anyone to your right or left, not to mention anyone behind you. If the birds flush behind you, you let them go. You don't cap off shots at anything that moves in a 360 circle in those circumstances.

Just read an article that spells out this exact thing. I hate it that Cheney and his people are ducking responsibility on this, and trying to imply that somehow the guy he shot did something wrong (other than be a lawyer). Take a look at this article:

http://washingtontimes.com/national/20060214-111127-7044r_page2.htm

I'm about thisclose to writing my own opinion piece and sending it to everybody that will listen.

 

[Biker]

Write it, man. This guy puts the 'hue' in hubris.
Biker

 

[Camp David]

Maybe he was invoking the "Ted Kennedy Rule". You get 24 hours after you shoot or drown somebody before you have to report it.

Hopefully this issue, clearer than any other, will show the public the Fifth Estate's partisanship... the media are just vultures! Liberal partisan vultures at that! VP Cheney does not have an obligation to the Washington Press corps... his obligation was only to seek medical care for his friend (which he did) and report the incident to the local sheriff (which he did). The Washington Press corps vultures are angry becuase they were scooped on this story by a Texas newspaper, which was told of the incident by the landowner, which is proper but again, not necessary.

 

[#shooter]

Gotta love the Cheney 2 prong defense

Actually 3 prong defense.
How Cheney handled this incident is exactly how he handles everything else he screws up.

Stage 1 (1st 12 hrs) = ignore what happened, maybe it will go away. The problem is shooting somebody must be reported to the police or game warden. Ooops! The cat is out of the bag.

Stage 2 (next 48hrs) = don’t say anything at all so you do not incriminate yourself. Plead the 5th. Ignorance is bliss.

Stage 3 (final stage) = Avoid responsibility and blame everyone but yourself. Thus far the VP spin machine has used the following:
1. Blame the dog. Dog should have not been there.
2. Blame the victim. He should not have gone after the bird or dog.
3. Blame the culture of hunting. This is my favorite. Several spin Dr.s have suggested, I kid you not, that this “commonly happens in…..” bird hunting, Texas, private hunting, hunting in general, etc…so what happened is no big deal, this happens all the time, and thus it was inevitable that it would have happed to Cheney sooner or later. Aaaahhhh! Yes. The destiny defesnse. It was bound to happen.

Thanks Cheney for giving sport of hunting a black eye instead of taking personal responsibility for your actions.

 

[noresttill]

I hold the theory that he was drunk hunting and the 24 hours was to sober up a bit.

I also hold the theory that if you put him in a red wig and dress he would look like an unhappy elementary school teacher (3rd grade to be exact)

 

[Specialized]

Hopefully this issue, clearer than any other, will show the public the Fifth Estate's partisanship... the media are just vultures! Liberal partisan vultures at that! VP Cheney does not have an obligation to the Washington Press corps... his obligation was only to seek medical care for his friend (which he did) and report the incident to the local sheriff (which he did). The Washington Press corps vultures are angry becuase they were scooped on this story by a Texas newspaper, which was told of the incident by the landowner, which is proper but again, not necessary.

Nice try. Cheney might not have an obligation directly to the press corps, but he does have an obligation to his employer, which is me (along with 296 million of my friends), and the press is the conduit between Cheney and us, and always has been since the birth of our democracy. White House policy is quite clear on this relationship, and Cheney's delusions of royalty notwithstanding, he is subject to those rules and policies. That he is a direct report to the Forrest Gump of American politics, who never had more than a tenuous control over him (if that) in the first place, only complicates matters. This guy is a bit smarter than Nixon, smart enough to stay below the radar -- but he's too clever by half, as the Brits would say. He takes waaaay more liberties with his position of power, to the point of abusing them, than he's due.

It isn't that his transgression in this case is so egregious; in fact, the only reasons the story has legs at all is that it is so very representative of what people hate about the way he conducts himself, it graphically illustrates the core problems in his character, and it directly touches an area that ordinary, traditional Americans of all walks of life can readily and easily relate to -- in other words, with the average citizen (especially ALL of the Republican base), it resonates like a sonofab*tch. Folks have been increasingly uncomfortable with this guy's ethical vacuum and mercenary attitude toward the world outside his limo for a long time, and that sentiment has finally crystallized. And I for one think the backlash is going to be spectacular, but that's an aside. More to the point, I agree that his behavior, during and especially after this event, has been unacceptable.

Thoughts?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Any balistic experts?

I may have missed this if anyone posted it already. Does anyone on here know how close Cheney would have had to be to the guy to put 200 out of 270 pellets into the guys body. Taking into account the kind of gun, the type of shell, and the spread it should be easy for a half decent balistics guy. I am sure we have a couple on here.

 

[Specialized]

I may have missed this if anyone posted it already. Does anyone on here know how close Cheney would have had to be to the guy to put 200 out of 270 pellets into the guys body. Taking into account the kind of gun, the type of shell, and the spread it should be easy for a half decent balistics guy. I am sure we have a couple on here.

Interesting! Before we go on a ballistic fact-finding jihad, out of curiosity where did the "200 out of 270" numbers come from? That'll help me look it up. As soon as I find the chart I'm thinking of, I'll post a link to it.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

VP Cheney does not have an obligation to the Washington Press corps.

No one said he does, CD. We all agree with you on this. But most of us also agree that not reporting this immediately was the height of stupidity, whether he was obligated or not. It simply handed ammuntition to Cheney's political enemies.

Do you disagree? Do you think this was handled intelligently or stupidly?

 

[JohnBT]

"They said Whittington had been standing in the bed of a dried pond, several feet downhill from where Cheney and another hunter, Pamela Pitzer Willeford, the U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, were standing as they were shooting quail. "He was standing in a low-lying area, and they were out in front on higher ground.," Salinas <the county sheriff> said. The vehicle carrying two other members of the hunting party "was directly behind the vp and everybody else, from what we were told.""

"With the wind gusting and the sun setting behind where Whittington was walking, it could have been hard to see and hear him, Salinas said."

- From page A1 & A6 in the 2/15 Washington Post.

 

[Camp David]

No one said he does, CD. We all agree with you on this. But most of us also agree that not reporting this immediately was the height of stupidity, whether he was obligated or not. It simply handed ammuntition to Cheney's political enemies. Do you disagree? Do you think this was handled intelligently or stupidly?

Yes, I do... strongly... you are being swayed by the predominate liberal biased media who seem to see a story somewhere in this accident. Democrats too are climbing on this story to achieve partisan advantage; the latest being Hildebeast herself.

Any kind of accident is troubling to the person who committed it; they are first driven to do right by the victim... in this case, VP Cheney's entire focus was to that end... get victim medical care, get him to a hospital, speak to the local sheriff, and do what he could to facilitate care... sorry you and the media feel left out. Insofar as giving ammunition to Cheney's political enemies, can you name any one of them that would even give the VP the time of day before this incident? It matters little what they think of him now.

"Height of stupidity?" How about that media briefing in the White House yesterday? I could think of a few candidates for that award right in the front row!

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Yes, I do... strongly... you are being swayed by the predominate liberal biased media who seem to see a story somewhere in this accident. Democrats too are climbing on this story to achieve partisan advantage; the latest being Hildebeast herself.

Any kind of accident is troubling to the person who committed it; they are first driven to do right by the victim... in this case, VP Cheney's entire focus was to that end... get victim medical care, get him to a hospital, speak to the local sheriff, and do what he could to facilitate care... sorry you and the media feel left out. Insofar as giving ammunition to Cheney's political enemies, can you name any one of them that would even give the VP the time of day before this incident? It matters little what they think of him now.

"Height of stupidity?" How about that media briefing in the White House yesterday? I could think of a few candidates for that award right in the front row!

Where is all this liberal media? Last time I looked it was highly conservative multi-national corporations that own every major network. Except of course FOX...they are ULTRA rightwing.

 

[JohnBT]

"Do you disagree? Do you think this was handled intelligently or stupidly?"

I don't think it's anybody's business but the man who got shot (and his family of course.)

Your post typifies the political feeding frenzy aspect of this situation. You're not worried about the guy who got shot or how to make hunting safer in the future, you're worried about politics.

The right of the people to know? Okay, now we know. So what? What's different now than this time last week? It was a hunting accident - maybe it could have been prevented, maybe not - but an accident nevertheless.

John

 

[22-rimfire]

Cheney did what was required. His emergency people were very close by to attend to his friend. Discussing it personally with the White House Press group is not required. If I had to guess, he was probably cautioned by his attorney to not personally hold a press conference soon after the event. Things needed to play out a bit. Beyond being embarrassed, he still went into protection mode which is where his attorneys come into play. Was it stupid? Yes, but things happen. Did he make a mistake? Almost certainly at various levels. Should he be dammed to hell because of it? I don't think so. I would be honored to hunt with Dick Cheney any time any place.

 

[Camp David]

Where is all this liberal media?

Liberal Media Evidence
A new poll by the Pew Center proves that the media is as liberal as ever.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/143lkblo.asp

"The argument over whether the national press is dominated by liberals is over. Since 1962, there have been 11 surveys of the media that sought the political views of hundreds of journalists. In 1971, they were 53 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In a 1976 survey of the Washington press corps, it was 59 percent liberal, 18 percent conservative. A 1985 poll of 3,200 reporters found them to be self-identified as 55 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In 1996, another survey of Washington journalists pegged the breakdown as 61 percent liberal, 9 percent conservative. Now, the new study by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found the national media to be 34 percent liberal and 7 percent conservative."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/28/opinion/main620207.shtml

All of this explains why this Cheney accident is still in the news and being used as a partisan political ploy by the media to embarras the current administration.

 

[Biker]

Cheney did what was required. His emergency people were very close by to attend to his friend. Discussing it personally with the White House Press group is not required. If I had to guess, he was probably cautioned by his attorney to not personally hold a press conference soon after the event. Things needed to play out a bit. Beyond being embarrassed, he still went into protection mode which is where his attorneys come into play. Was it stupid? Yes, but things happen. Did he make a mistake? Almost certainly at various levels. Should he be dammed to hell because of it? I don't think so. I would be honored to hunt with Dick Cheney any time any place.

There's another thread fairly active at this point concerning suicide.

Biker

 

[britinaz]

Liberal Media Evidence
A new poll by the Pew Center proves that the media is as liberal as ever.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/143lkblo.asp

"The argument over whether the national press is dominated by liberals is over. Since 1962, there have been 11 surveys of the media that sought the political views of hundreds of journalists. In 1971, they were 53 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In a 1976 survey of the Washington press corps, it was 59 percent liberal, 18 percent conservative. A 1985 poll of 3,200 reporters found them to be self-identified as 55 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In 1996, another survey of Washington journalists pegged the breakdown as 61 percent liberal, 9 percent conservative. Now, the new study by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found the national media to be 34 percent liberal and 7 percent conservative."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/28/opinion/main620207.shtml
All of this explains why this Cheney accident is still in the news and being used as a partisan political ploy by the media to embarras the current administration.

That is simply BS. Nobody wants to admit that they are the liberal media. The figures may have gone from 61% to 34% but they are still the same people.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Liberal Media Evidence
A new poll by the Pew Center proves that the media is as liberal as ever.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/143lkblo.asp

"The argument over whether the national press is dominated by liberals is over. Since 1962, there have been 11 surveys of the media that sought the political views of hundreds of journalists. In 1971, they were 53 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In a 1976 survey of the Washington press corps, it was 59 percent liberal, 18 percent conservative. A 1985 poll of 3,200 reporters found them to be self-identified as 55 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In 1996, another survey of Washington journalists pegged the breakdown as 61 percent liberal, 9 percent conservative. Now, the new study by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found the national media to be 34 percent liberal and 7 percent conservative."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/28/opinion/main620207.shtml

All of this explains why this Cheney accident is still in the news and being used as a partisan political ploy by the media to embarras the current administration.

Those questions asked the newspersons personal views. Whether he/she was liberal or conservative. A newsperson should always be openminded which is the definition of liberal. Kind of a trap question. Are reporters supposed to say "I am completely close minded"? It does not gauge the slant of actual stories in the media or more importantly the ones that do not make it to air. As for PEW Research Center...it is run by Pew Charitable Trusts. The Pew Charitable Trusts is an independent nonprofit and the sole beneficiary of seven individual charitable funds established between 1948 and 1979 by two sons and two daughters of Sun Oil Company founder Joseph N. Pew and his wife, Mary Anderson Pew. I am not saying the info is false but it is misleading. I am sure there are some liberals and maybe even leftist working for Haliburton. That does not make it a liberal or leftist company.

 

[Camp David]

That is simply BS...

Then point to your own reference and research study to counter it... The Pew Center is acknowledged in the journalist profession....

 

[#shooter]

Whatever

Liberal Media Evidence
A new poll by the Pew Center proves that the media is as liberal as ever.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/004/143lkblo.asp

"The argument over whether the national press is dominated by liberals is over. Since 1962, there have been 11 surveys of the media that sought the political views of hundreds of journalists. In 1971, they were 53 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In a 1976 survey of the Washington press corps, it was 59 percent liberal, 18 percent conservative. A 1985 poll of 3,200 reporters found them to be self-identified as 55 percent liberal, 17 percent conservative. In 1996, another survey of Washington journalists pegged the breakdown as 61 percent liberal, 9 percent conservative. Now, the new study by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found the national media to be 34 percent liberal and 7 percent conservative."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/28/opinion/main620207.shtml

All of this explains why this Cheney accident is still in the news and being used as a partisan political ploy by the media to embarras the current administration.

The article and Pew confuse media and national press reporters (newspapers). Newspapers are not the sole media anymore let alone the top dog in the media business. Media consists of: TV=run by big corporations that donate to conservatives, newspapers= liberal, internet= even, and radio=conservative. Guess what? Conservatives rule the media 2 to 1, and they rule the top 2 media distribution methods as well. As we speak newspapers are being wiped out by the internet and the ones that survive are being bought by the right wing corporations. Look at Fox Corporation. They have a “liberal” wing that is Fox TV and a “conservative” wing at Fox News. Fox news loves to report the liberal bias of the Simpson’s. Then the Fox hypes up their own BS news about the liberal media. It like a fireman setting fires so he can say that he is needed to put out fires. :banghead:

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

I've got to agree with CD about the media being liberal, at least to a point. I used to be a reporter for a daily paper and garnered a little insight into how things work. The ownership of a paper might be conservative, but the storied that get reported reflect the writer's bias, at least to a degree. They don't go out and fabricate information that supports their personal biases; rather, the accept information that supports those biases less critically than they accept information that conflicts with those biases.

I do, however, disagree with the following statement:

All of this explains why this Cheney accident is still in the news and being used as a partisan political ploy by the media to embarras the current administration.

The incident is still in the news because it is one of the most dramatic news stories since 9/11. If you don't think the vice president shooting someone, even by accident, is huge news, look up Aaron Burr in any high-school history text. The vice president shooting a man is huge news and it is our business because, as has been pointed out, the man works for us, the American people. When one of your employees shoots someone, you have the right to know about it.

 

[cosine]

This should be no big deal. It was an accident. In no way is it one of the most dramatic news stories since 9/11.

Aaron Burr's shooting was a big deal because that was a duel resulting from animosity regarding personal differences and the working of the government.

Cheney had a careless accident. Accidents happen to everybody because of carelessness.

And if one still thinks it's a big deal, I assure you that this event will not make it into history textbooks like Aaron Burr's shooting did. Therefore, it's not an important event.