Jeff White said:
Don't Tread On Me,
... is your diatribe motivated by hatred and distrust of the police?
Diatribe?
I am insulted and offended by this comment. Please cite where I said that I hate cops, or that I believe cops are working against your concealed carry efforts. I believe it is other people in this thread that mentioned that now that cops have concealed carry nationally, that they've abandoned civilians.
I never contributed this idea, I don't agree with it, and it's not something I've discussed here. I know very well that many officers are working hard to get civilian carry because they understand our cause.
I think you've misread my arguments. Perhaps it is my fault for not being able to articulate my thoughts well. My apologies for that.
My heart is 100% with and for the RKBA. I believe your approach serves the RKBA movement nothing. In fact, I believe it is a blunder that is doing more damage than good. Cop carry is a bad deal, we took a wrong turn. I bet you folks would think of this as insanity, but believe it or not, if we were true to our movement, the NRA would have come out in rejection of the cop carry bill. Imagine that! And no, nothing personal against cops. I don't reject cop carry because I don't like cops, but because I don't believe cops should be viewed as different from civilians in respect to off duty rights/priviledges.
Do you know how many years it took us to get HR218 into law? It is the first step toward a national CCW. It's not going to happen overnight though.
I hope national concealed carry NEVER EVER HAPPENS.
I don't hope that because I don't want you to have a concealed carry license in Chicago. That is absurd and insulting. If you want carry, you'll have to get it done in your state. Nationalizing will lead to federal regulation which will torpedo the whole thing for everyone.
I reject the argument that national concealed carry with have no negative effects on my state license. This is gateway legislation towards future centralized regulation due to the inherent problems with such a plan. The general movement in our nation is towards centralization, why on Earth did congress finally pass the national ID act a few years ago? Because they prefer ID's to be done on the state level? Oh please.
Being that I reject that apologists argument, I am not willing to concede or forfeit any of the hard work we've done in our states so that you can carry a gun. That's what's going to happen. We will end up with federal guidelines for concealed carry due to state disputes. MARK my words. In order to compromise with the stupid rabid anti-gun polticians in your state, everyone's standards will have to be lowered to a more restrictive level by the federal government. Why?
I've heard all the arguments PRO national carry. I know that different states have different laws and guidelines for marriage, and that states have to accept other's licenses. Well, that doesn't work for gays despite the massive national attention to that issue, with the bias against guns - do you really believe that's going to work for concealed carry? Not a chance. Things aren't that ideal in this country. Hetero marriage is accepted across state lines regardless of standards because that's a right that everyone cares about. People tend to only care about the rights which they actually use or need. Guns are often not included.
Chicago is going to sit pretty while I carry my 9mm with Florida license around on the Navy Pier? Oh yeah right! What will the people of Chicago say? We demand to carry too! Of course they will. They will either say, no, we don't want Floridians carrying their guns in our state, or they will accept it, and say - "how can we allow others to carry here, but not our own citizens?"
The politicians will be 2 steps ahead and already know this, and IF we ever gain the enough national support to seriously consider a bill like that, passage will depend on the representatives from these states. And they'll be damned if they will let our standards for carrying a gun be theirs.
After considering all of this, the only conclusion that I can come to, is that people in places like IL are either ignorant of what will surely happen to concealed carry standards once federally regulated due to state disputes, court battles etc, or they are willing to screw the rest of the nation to get a piece of heavily restricted carry.
Reciprocity is a long-shot, work around way for RKBA doomed places like Illinois to weasel concealed carry into their state. The dangers outweigh the positives. You know what's funny? Most of us here are enranged when anti-gun states, and their legislators try to take the anti-gun laws in their states, and impose them onto the rest of the nation. Quite frankly, during the AWB I was irritated beyond belief that idiots like Feinstein believe I in Florida should not be able to own a magazine with greater than 10 round capacity. The people in those states, who are overwhelmingly leftist and anti-gun put witches like her in office who impose their influence and power to create tyranny in my state, my home. You know what? I've come to the conclusion that if places like California want an AWB so be it, just don't bring your garbage to my State please. I can't expect to demand that the AWB of California be repealed when places like San Francisco vote, through public referendum - to disarm themselves!!!!! Unworkable, you better believe it. Remember, the Cali ban was worse than the federal, the anti-gunners were willing to compromise on the AWB to get it passed, the same way idiot gun owners will compromise on national concealed carry terms to get it passed. Feinstein didn't mind that Florida had a weaker AWB than Cali, so long as they did. Same way many gun owners won't care that concealed carry is screwed so long as they get it in some form. Sad.
Why should we compromise for a right? We should get concealed carry with no compromises. We have the moral high ground, we have history and righteousness on our side. We have the Constitution on our side.
And no, I am not being selfish or inconsiderate. I am certainly not being insensitive to your rights in Illinois.
Thankfully, I don't have to worry about national CC. Because my state and it's pro gun legislators will never forfeit our system in lieu of a federal one. I'll fight tooth and nail to reject such ludicrous ideas.
Our priorities shouldn't be on getting pro-gun legislation with anti-gun strings attached. WE LOSE EVERY SINGLE TIME ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL. Since we can't get clean bills, we might as well just seek repeals of old ones. If they don't have a prayer, at least we aren't digging ourselves into a grave that way. No compromise. Remember that. No one won their rights back by being wussy.
States that won CC did so by demanding it for civilians, not by hanging their hopes on cop carry or national carry.
Fortune favors the bold.