China has come a long way in knife production (Enlan EL-01)

[Ohen Cepel]

My knives are pretty personal for me. I just don't like so much of the way the Chinese do business and so don't buy their knives.

They can and will make some very nice stuff. However, till they clean up a LOT of their business practices I won't spend my knife money with them.

 

[hso]

zhyla,

They rip off their designs from the U.S. so that's why they look kinda like you've seen them over and over again. Like Ohen Cepel I can't abide them, but as long as you're not buying blatant copies, even at the appropriate $10-$15 price point, many people find a place for them.

There are threads on them in the knife forums focused on trying to find the "best" of the knockoffs. This knife rates pretty "highly" (of course that's high in a field of bottom crawlers) as a beater that people won't cry over breaking or losing. I'm interested in seeing what Sam puts this thing through and what he finds.

 

[Sam Cade]

I'm interested in seeing what Sam puts this thing through and what he finds.

The usual for this sort of thing.

Cardboard and wirechopping.

Obligatory spinewacks.

Tipslashes on heavy-wall shipping tubes.


I'm around 1,600 unlubricated flicks. Still smooth,still solid. The Pivot screw hasn't needed adjustment but it has picked up an annoying squeak. I think that it is coming from the poly washer/bearing.

 

[ugaarguy]

I've never bought an Enlan or other totally Chinese brand. I have purchased Chinese made Bokers, Spydercos (their Byrd line), and a Benchmade (HK line). In contrast to the rip-offs, if you want a production Chad Los Banos knife they're almost all (all?) made in China. I'm okay with ethical knife companies offering some value line products that are made in China.

 

[hso]

Cardboard cutting

Rope push cut crunches

Stab into 2x4 and snap out for tip strength

Standard stuff.

 

[CA Raider]

i wouldn't put China down too much for two reasons:

1. Chinese products are made the way that American businesses specify, including alloys and heat treatments. Basically, US companies specify the design, then China makes it. So if you are not satisfied with the quality of the product - look first at who is specifying it from the US side. China can produce high-quality products ... if they are told to do so.

2. China has made pretty much every kind of knife you can think of - for the USA and many other countries. They have made them all. HENCE - they can make just about anything. Stop and think about that HUGE amount of experience with manufacturing and product testing. Then ask yourself - what are the Chinese special forces carrying for their knives? Because China can pretty much make their own army the very best blades. We taught them how to do it.

Just my $0.02

CA R

 

[hso]

CA Raider,

The knives made for American and European companies aren't the primary complaint, although I'm personally familiar with Chinese factories cheating at products made for American knife companies in the past and the need for visits to them to help keep everything running smoothly.

The most serious criticism is what Chinese companies produce and sell themselves here. Some of them, those mentioned in this thread, rip off American designs or outright counterfeit the products (right down to labeling and packaging) and they produce inferior quality so they can make the most profit from unwary or uncaring buyers. I've handled counterfeit Microtechs and Spydercos just this week and Cold Steel and Buck and Strider in the past and you can find examples yourself on the internet. I've handled Chinese ripoffs ranging in quality from tolerable to terrible. I've also handled knives from Chinese manufacturers who went to the trouble to change enough to avoid any legal challenge on design even if they'd been produced in the U.S. Those also ranged from good to terrible. Overall Chinese knife factories can produce any knife they want at any quality level they desire, but that's part of the problem because they will produce and sell ANY knife whether it is theirs or not at any quality level and our members won't know the difference unless they read reviews and evaluations of specific items.

 

[Sam Cade]

While running errands today I stopped by a local machine shop and had them poke the Enlan EL-01A and got a hardness of 58. Right where it should be.
Probably.

 

[hso]

Impressive

 

[Sam Cade]

Impressive

I'd be more impressed if I did 10 knives from 10 different runs and they all came back within a couple points of each other. I'm not going to make any broad statements on quality based on a sample size of one.


I will say that the single poly washer suxxxors. It is starting to break down (2,200 flicks, roughly) and the large bearing surface keeps the action from being smooth as.... the $25, dual PB, Nipponese AUS-8, Chinese built OKC-Rat-1, ferinstance.

 

[hso]

if I did 10 knives from 10 different runs and they all came back within a couple points of each other

Yep, but at least they got the heat treat right on this one random sample and given the nature of modern heat treat lines it isn't unreasonable to expect they got this entire lot right. Other lots? That would get to be expensive finding out.

 

[Kayaker 1960]

Chinese

Buy American made products, keep a fellow American working. Buy a Chinese product and you put your neighbor out of work. If I have to pay more for a USA made product I will do so gladly.

 

[TimboKhan]

Buy American made products, keep a fellow American working. Buy a Chinese product and you put your neighbor out of work

Nice sentiment, but that isn't quite how that works in a global economy such as we have now.

I am not saying don't buy American , but I am saying that jobs are created all along the pipeline with foreign products. The knife sellers, the importers, the trucks that deliver them, etc. Like it or not, we live in a global economy and Americans are making money off foreign products in all phases except for the actual production side of things.

If I really need a reason to say "don't buy Chinese", it is what Hso said about the illegal copying of designs. Legitimate Chinese products don't cause me much heartache, but I wouldn't spend a dime on a stolen design. Fact is, I have some good Chinese knives, including a couple of Chinese Spydercos that I think are fantastic.

 

[ugaarguy]

Timbo, you make good points. I'd also like to point out that Spyderco got their start having their designs made to their specs in Japan. That produced to spec in Japan start allowed them to build their own plant in Colorado for some of their production.

Also, most (if not all) of the Chinese made knives from all brands use Chinese made blade steel. However, there are US made Benchmade knives with German blade steel, US made Kershaws with Swedish blade steel, Italian made LionSteel knives with German blade steels, and Taiwanese made Spydercos with American steel - just as a few examples. We truly do live in a global economy.

 

[Sam Cade]

Hmmmm... Should we differentiate between ROC-Chinese and PRC-Chinese?

 

[9mmepiphany]

Taiwan makes good blades?

I don't think we need to confuse internationally recognized China with the island/nation of Taiwan

 

[ugaarguy]

Taiwan makes good blades?

The Spyderco Chaparral is made in Taiwan, and it's one of the best production knives I own. It's every bit as good as my Japan made Spydercos, and better than my sample size of one US made Spyderco. That's just one example, but, yes, Taiwan made knives are as good as anything else at their respective price points.

Hmmmm... Should we differentiate between ROC-Chinese and PRC-Chinese?

Well, they are two different countries.

 

[hso]

The progression offshore of knifemaking has been to Japan, then ROC, and now PRC.

30 years ago Japan produced the quality offshore made knives and Taiwan was the source of cheap knives just a bit better than Pakistan. As Taiwan caught up with Japan for quality production they became a primary knife manufacturing country. Once the PRC opened up they were the junk knife maker for many years. Now they are supplanting the other countries in economical knife production. To further muddy the water, Japanese factories are subbing some work out to the PRC as are, I think, the ROC companies. So, even though you may have a knife made in a Japanese shop for Spyderco or Cold Steel or Kershaw, that knife may have components from the PRC or may have been assembled and shipped back to Japan.

 

[Sam Cade]

Well, they are two different countries.

Depends on who you ask.

The Spyderco Chaparral is made in Taiwan, and it's one of the best production knives I own.

The Taiwanese OKC folders are very impressive as well.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Depends on who you ask.

Interestingly both the ROC and the PRC will tell you that there is only one China... so there

 

[Snowdog]

I have noticed that my El-01 isn't any easier to open than it was when I first got it. I have to give the blade a little snap of the wrist to open. With my 910 Stryker, it's all in the thumb and no movement of the wrist.

Another issue is closing. The blade locks open tight... I mean tight. The liner lock doesn't want to move without considerable pressure.

It's still usable with one hand and I'm guessing it will ease up with use, but it's not as user friendly as the Benchmade I'm used to.

On the flip side, it's solid all the way around, open and closed. And this issue is only with the original Khaki Enlan EL-01 I bought and not with the others. That's a bit strange. I'm beginning to suspect some grit from the Lansky sharpener I originally used got into the washers.

I still feel this is a heck of a value for the money. I'd still purchase them all over again knowing what I know now.

 

[Ol' Badger]

I don't buy Chinese made items if I can help it. Most of the money goes to the PLA and we will just end up fighting them at some-point in the future. I'd hate to think my money paid to kill someone's boy in the services.

But thats just me...

 

[Sam Cade]

The liner lock doesn't want to move without considerable pressure.

On the example I have the liner lock is exceptionally stiff as well and feels exactly the same after a couple thousand flicks.

 

[Sam Cade]

Took the Enlan EL-01A out to the shop of horrors for a workout.


The knife is unused except for flushing the grivory scales on a couple Beckers and cutting up a couple pounds of potatoes.

This is our factory edge. It is fairly rough with a bit of rolling from steeling on the Becker tangs as the scales were trimmed.

I jumped right into serious blade testing, by hammering the edge through some heavy electrical wiring.
I made 20 cuts through the cable.

Not terrible, but the edge is fairly thick and did not slice well. (edit-on the taters)

Lockup remains tight after all the pounding, zero play.

Next I did some tear outs on pine.

 

[Sam Cade]

First tear out, roughly 1cm driven into 2x4.

...and immediate failure.

Keep in mind the blade is a full 1/8" thick. Soo.... Yeah.

Tear out #3 breaks the tip off cleanly.

Grain looks to be homogenous.