Comparison 7.62x39 vs. 30-30
- Thread starter igotta40
- Start date
- Status
I'd probably chose the 94 if medium game is your primary goal. Id chose the ak if blasting stuff on the weekends takes precedence. Both will work reasonably well and everything from cans to deer and hogs at the ranges you intend. Tho i prefer to make 200 my personal max for any gun without a scope.
If you do not reload
The AK offers cheaper plinking ammo, with a decent selection of medium game ammo for a higher cost.
The 94 offers a good selection of medium game ammo, thats offten more readily available, but it generally costs more.
If you reload than either should be about the same, tho youll have a better selection of bullets for the .30-30.
If you do not reload
The AK offers cheaper plinking ammo, with a decent selection of medium game ammo for a higher cost.
The 94 offers a good selection of medium game ammo, thats offten more readily available, but it generally costs more.
If you reload than either should be about the same, tho youll have a better selection of bullets for the .30-30.
as long as you can put the bullet in the vitals, the deer won't know the difference. that said, i find it easier to do with a 30-30 than an AK. I've taken deer with the 7.62x39 round out of an SKS, but didn't find myself comfortable with my ak's accuracy...or my ability to shoot it possibly....to ever use it for deer hunting. in fact, i traded my only AK off for a Savage Trophy Hunter in 6.5 just this week.
adcoch1
Member
If you already have both guns, and no other influence is included, I would go 30-30. For hunting the ergonomics of a levergun are what makes it better. Remember that hunting is a lot of handling the gun and very little shooting. An AK47 can be used for deer, but if you're only going to pull the trigger once, might as well use the more comfortable to carry tool. It's a wash on which cartridge is better or worse at those ranges with hunting ammo.
JohnhenrySTL
Member
I don't know of any 7.62 round that works as well as the Hornady Leverution.
eastbank
Member
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2009
- Messages
- 5,020
in car engines its cubic inches= more power with every other thing being the same and it,s the same in firearm cases. more space for powder more power, maybe not as efficient. pressures seem to be kept low in most lever actions and much higher in most bolt actions, to realy compare different cases with the same bullet pressures must be taken into account.eastbank.
entropy
Member
.30-30 has higher bullet weights, and better bullet selection in factory ammo. One can load .308 dia. bullets if handloading 7.62x39, but COL cuts into powder volume.I have both, have hunted with both, but haven't take deer with either yet. I've seen deer that have been killed by both; if the shooter is competent and knows the rounds' limitations, both guns will work. For a non-reloader, the .30-30 is the much better choice. It's still the better choice for a reloader, but less overwhelmingly.
For true all around use, including home/self defense, 2A responsibilities, plinking and hunting I don't think there's any question. 7.62x39 AK. If by "all around use" you meant all around hunting use, then I'd say 30-30.
Newtosavage
Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2015
- Messages
- 2,918
So, I have some real world numbers on these two now... I have both a bolt action 7.62x39 (Savage) and a pre-64 Win. 30-30 that was my first deer rifle.
Factory loads in the x39 give me consistently 2350 fps. with 123-grain bullets. That's from a 20" barrel. But my favorite hunting load is a 160-grain FTX (same as the LeverEvolution bullet) traveling at 2250 fps. It gives me an honest 1100 ft. lbs. of energy at 200 yards.
By comparison, I've shot the 30-30 LeverEvolution rounds out of my Win. 94, and I get 2350 fps. out of that 20" barrel.
So if you handload, you can push the same bullet to within approx. 100 fps. of the 30-30 round.
Factory loads in the x39 give me consistently 2350 fps. with 123-grain bullets. That's from a 20" barrel. But my favorite hunting load is a 160-grain FTX (same as the LeverEvolution bullet) traveling at 2250 fps. It gives me an honest 1100 ft. lbs. of energy at 200 yards.
By comparison, I've shot the 30-30 LeverEvolution rounds out of my Win. 94, and I get 2350 fps. out of that 20" barrel.
So if you handload, you can push the same bullet to within approx. 100 fps. of the 30-30 round.
IF you have a hybrid barrel bored to .308....... those are not as common as they should be in my opinion.
ETA .308x39 is still in essence, a wildcatters prospect and until someone adopts it commercially the general public may never understand the potential attributes of that cartridge. Most ak rifles are not likely to shoot a .308 dia bullet nearly as well.
Llama Bob
member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2016
- Messages
- 2,258
From my perspective, this one's easy. AKs are basically junk guns, and not something I'm ever going to exchange money for. Winchester 94s are in general nice guns. The 7.62x39 is an acceptable solution for a specific problem, but ballistics challenged for general use. The .30-30 does quite a bit better, although it does have low-BC projectiles due to the flat nose requirement. That's bad for range, but good for terminal ballistics (wide meplat equal wide wound channel).
I'd get the 94, install a barrel peep sight, and worry not one bit about the AK I passed on.
I'd get the 94, install a barrel peep sight, and worry not one bit about the AK I passed on.
Llama Bob
member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2016
- Messages
- 2,258
The Winchester 94 and leverguns in general are deadly on humans at short to moderate range. Look up Russian losses at the siege of Plevna.
Dog Soldier
member
The .30-30 was designed for hunting. It was adopted by many Prisons systems for use by wall sentries. The compact flat carbines has been the choice of horse packers and woods runners.
The 7.62 X 39 has a history as a short range military round. There are many who are using it as a hunting round. Many firearms companies are providing proper hunting rifles for this round.
The 7.62 X 39 has a history as a short range military round. There are many who are using it as a hunting round. Many firearms companies are providing proper hunting rifles for this round.
As a slight generalization, you'll lose anywhere between 50 and 100fps using .308 diameter bullets with a .311 bore. Of .311 bullets Hornady 150 and 174gr Interlocks and Sierra 180gr Pro-Hunter can be loaded pretty hot providing there are means to control gas to the piston (otherwise brass ejection is pretty violent), so that they retain their recommended impact velocity at 150, even 200yd. More or less an equivalent to hot .30-30 handloads and some top shelf factory loads.
Newtosavage
Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2015
- Messages
- 2,918
Sunray
Member
As much as I dislike the Win M94, even its factory iron sights and trigger are better than those on the AK. The AK was designed to be issued to illiterate conscripts, who could be taught to use it in as little time as possible. The Win M94 was designed for American deer hunters who demanded a much higher degree of accuracy.
"...AKs are basically junk guns..." That will go 'bang' every time, in every climate and condition. It's a battle rifle that's not exactly 'junk'. Wouldn't buy one either even if they weren't evil up here though.
However, it's still an apples and oranges comparison. The .30-30 sends a 160ish grain bullet to 200 yards with 463 ft-lbs. more remaining energy than the 123 grain 7.62 x 39. Sighted in 3" high at 100, that 160 is on target at 200, 12" low at 300 with 1025 ft-lbs. of energy. The 7.62 x 39 has 616 ft-lbs. at 200 at close to the same drop at 14.8".
"...AKs are basically junk guns..." That will go 'bang' every time, in every climate and condition. It's a battle rifle that's not exactly 'junk'. Wouldn't buy one either even if they weren't evil up here though.
However, it's still an apples and oranges comparison. The .30-30 sends a 160ish grain bullet to 200 yards with 463 ft-lbs. more remaining energy than the 123 grain 7.62 x 39. Sighted in 3" high at 100, that 160 is on target at 200, 12" low at 300 with 1025 ft-lbs. of energy. The 7.62 x 39 has 616 ft-lbs. at 200 at close to the same drop at 14.8".
Deaf Smith
Member
I choose...
My Marlin Texan 30/30 with Skinner sights and handloaded LeverRevolution power with 170 grain Nosler Partitions for 2300 fps using.
Good enough.
Deaf
My Marlin Texan 30/30 with Skinner sights and handloaded LeverRevolution power with 170 grain Nosler Partitions for 2300 fps using.
Good enough.
Deaf
dallssheep
Member
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2010
- Messages
- 54
I'll use my Sks or Ak with a 2x7 scope on it as a backup while hunting with 154gr soft points if my 3006 is down. The deer here are black tail, so they don't have to have the biggest baddest bullet to take em down. It's those darn coastal brown bears that give us grief up here in Alaska
I just looked it up. I'm not really sure what your point is. That was in 1877-78. The model 94 was cutting edge at that time. So was the steam locomotive. Both the lever action and the steam engine worked for what they were supposed to do but we've since come up with better options in both cases.
I believe every American has a responsibility to own and be familiar with detachable magazine fed rifles since that's the closest we can legally get to what the military uses. That's part of being part of the "well regulated militia". That's why I suggested the AK over the lever gun for "all around use" (personally I think the AR is the better option, but that's not what this thread is about).
Jason_W
Member
Detachable mag fed semi-autos are pretty easy to figure out if you need to. My philosophy has always been that if things get to a point where I really need a hi-cap rapid fire rifle, I just take one off a corpse.
Until then, leverguns are just cool and wood feels better to touch (IMO) than synthetic materials.
I see a .30-30 or .45-70 levergun as kind of a middle ground between the comparatively low powered but quick firing semi-auto carbine rounds and the comparatively high-powered but slow firing bolt guns in the 06 or .308 class. Terminal performance wise, the .30-30 beats both the x39 and .300 blk, but most shooters will arguable be able to get followup shots off faster with a levergun than with a bolt gun.
Detachable mag fed semi-autos are pretty easy to figure out if you need to. My philosophy has always been that if things get to a point where I really need a hi-cap rapid fire rifle, I just take one off a corpse.
I guarantee that no one with real world experience with them in that sort of scenario would agree with that philosophy.
This is all just kind of mental gymnastics until the OP specifies what exactly he meant by "all around use".
denton
Member
Zombies: AK
Deer: 30-30
Deer: 30-30
Out of sheer curiosity, why, ie. would you think there's a solid reason? In objective terms the marginal difference in ballistics isn't enough to tip the scale to one way or another and after that I'd see the whole question as a subjective matter of individual, personal preference. Recently I've used Ruger Mini 30 for deer, which is just that, a choice I can't really explain in any other way than I happen to like it and it does the job.
- Status
