Concealed Carry By Census Takers

[wishin]

Do you expect that the door-to-door census person will be carrying concealed in your neighborhood, or any other area of your city?

 

[ganymede]

I'm thinking about becoming a census worker this year and if i do i will be carrying. not the safest job in some places...

 

[stickhauler]

But will it be legal as a census worker to carry a firearm? If not, that opens up a completely different can of worms for anyone who does so.

 

[Patriotme]

I don't expect them to be carrying but I really don't care if they choose to. That's up to them. Of course Uncle Sam will probably not allow it.

 

[Ed4032]

Does ACORN allow you to carry while working for them ?

 

[mljdeckard]

I took the test, I was looking at it to fill in some time between guard projects.

Fundamentally, these people are under federal employ, I can't see policy allowing them to be armed. They are also entering private property and peoples' homes, which will vary in legality from state to state.

I'm certain their employee handbook will prohibit it, I'm NOT so certain that they will cover it in their employee orientation.

 

[mgkdrgn]

If they do, I'm pretty sure they will do so w/o the knowledge or the blessings of their employer, and said employment will end if they are discovered.

 

[Erik M]

If they do, I'm pretty sure they will do so w/o the knowledge or the blessings of their employer, and said employment will end if they are discovered.

We had census workers in our area until one committed suicide last fall which made them halt the project. I know from the news that they were not allowed to carry guns in their vehicles when performing their job as census personnel.

 

[wishin]

Does ACORN allow you to carry while working for them ?

I'm thinking ACORN is not the shining example they'll be following.

 

[Trebor]

I had a temp job with the Census back in 2000. My job was to hang forms on doorknobs of houses that had not yet responded to the census.

The regulations when I was hired specifically forbid Census workers from carrying firearms on their person or in their vehicle while working or while on Census controlled property. Violation was a fireable offense.

 

[Deanimator]

In the past, some of them have been convicted felons. If they're carrying, it's not for a GOOD reason. That's a good reason for YOU to be armed.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Doesn't matter...They will be met at the door by a armed citizen here...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

But will it be legal as a census worker to carry a firearm?

What law would prohibit a census worker from carrying a firearm? What would make being a census worker somehow unique?

 

[deadin]

What law would prohibit a census worker from carrying a firearm?

I would imagine it would be a condition of employment, not a "law".

 

[wishin]

In the past, some of them have been convicted felons................

I didn't know that. You would think they'd screen the temps better! Maybe Trebor can tell us about the application process the last time around.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I am unsure why you're asking the question. Are you worried about their "going census" on us? Or are you asking if they should be armed for their safety? Regarding the latter, I doubt if the Census Bureau would allow them to carry, even with a lawful state CCW.

 

[ganymede]

Yeah, I'm going to carry anyway as a census worker, I don't care if i get fired from some temp job. there is no way im going to value a job like that higher then i value my life. If it turns out its illegal some how, i just wont work for them.

 

[wishin]

I am unsure why you're asking the question. Are you worried about their "going census" on us?

I'm after the general consensus on the census

 

[Paints]

I'm after the general consensus on the census

My general consensus is that the census is an invasion of privacy. The Constitution says "enumerate", that means count. It doesn't mean asking all kind of personal questions for the benefit of big corporations or for government files.

Ken

 

[wishin]

Gotta put this back on the gun track before the mods close it.............

personally, I'd be inclined to concealed carry (I'm licensed) no matter the area! Be interested to hear from someone who's recently interviewed for the job with the census folks, and if it came up.

 

[Aran]

I didn't know that. You would think they'd screen the temps better! Maybe Trebor can tell us about the application process the last time around.

Are you implying that felons don't deserve to work after serving their time?

I'm sure THAT'LL end the crime problems we have!

 

[wishin]

Aran

I failed to post the reference quote that prompted my comment:

In the past, some of them have been convicted felons. If they're carrying, it's not for a GOOD reason. That's a good reason for YOU to be armed.

 

[wishin]

Has anyone on THR been interviewed or hired as a census taker yet?

 

[proud2deviate]

Sorry for the late reply.

I worked the Address Canvassing operation in the spring, and I'm now employed at the local office.

Every step I took as an Enumerator, I had a RIA .45 on my hip, condition 1. I was never made aware of any regulations regarding CCW, and I didn't ask, either. Now I know that Census Bureau policy (not law, mind you,) strictly prohibits carrying weapons (this, of course, is never defined,) while on the job. Not on your person, not in the car. They can get bent, for all I care. If ever I get called back into the field, I will be armed. No job is worth risking my life or my safety.

In the office, however, federal law comes into play. Title 18, specifically;

From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access
[www.gpoaccess.gov]
[Laws in effect as of January 3, 2007]
[CITE: 18USC930]

[Page 235]

TITLE 18--CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE

PART I--CRIMES

CHAPTER 44--FIREARMS


Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in
Federal facilities

(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in
a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1
year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be
used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be
present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or
attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not
more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills any person in the course of a violation of
subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal
facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, or
attempts or conspires to do such an act, shall be punished as provided
in sections 1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to--
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer,
agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political
subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or
supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution
of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a
Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession
is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons
in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility,
or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not
more than 2 years, or both.
(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in
paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the
United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders
regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within
any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any
grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
official duties.
(2) The term ``dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device,
instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily
injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a
blade of less than 2\1/2\ inches in length.
(3) The term ``Federal court facility'' means the courtroom,
judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney
conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court
clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal,
probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court
of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility,
and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each
public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be
convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a
Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility,
unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the
case may be.

(Added Pub. L. 100-690, title VI, Sec. 6215(a), Nov. 18, 1988, 102 Stat.
4361; amended Pub. L. 101-647, title XXII, Sec. 2205(a), Nov. 29, 1990,
104 Stat. 4857; Pub. L. 103-322, title VI, Sec. 60014, Sept. 13, 1994,
108 Stat. 1973; Pub. L. 104-294, title VI, Sec. 603(t), (u), Oct. 11,
1996, 110 Stat. 3506; Pub. L. 107-56, title VIII, Sec. 811(b), Oct. 26,
2001, 115 Stat. 381.)


Amendments

2001--Subsec. (c). Pub. L. 107-56 struck out ``or attempts to kill''
after ``A person who kills'', inserted ``or attempts or conspires to do
such an act,'' before ``shall be punished'', and substituted ``1113, and
1117'' for ``and 1113''.
1996--Subsec. (e)(2). Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(t), substituted
``subsection (d)'' for ``subsection (c)''.
Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(u)(1), redesignated subsec.
(g), related to posting notice in Federal facilities, as (h).
Subsec. (h). Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(u)(2), substituted ``(e)''
for ``(d)'' wherever appearing.
Pub. L. 104-294, Sec. 603(u)(1), redesignated subsec. (g), related
to posting notice in Federal facilities, as (h).
1994--Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 60014(2), substituted
``(d)'' for ``(c)''.
Subsecs. (c) to (g). Pub. L. 103-322, Sec. 60014(1), (3), added
subsec. (c) and redesignated former subsecs. (c) to (f) as (d) to (g),
respectively.
1990--Subsec. (a). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(1), inserted
``(other than a Federal court facility)'' after ``Federal facility''.
Subsecs. (d), (e). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(2), (3), added
subsec. (d) and redesignated former subsec. (d) as (e). Former subsec.
(e) redesignated (f).
Subsec. (f). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(2), redesignated subsec.
(e) as (f). Former subsec. (f) redesignated (g).
Subsec. (f)(3). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(4), added par. (3).
Subsec. (g). Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(5), inserted ``and notice
of subsection (d) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance
to each Federal court facility,'' after ``each Federal facility,'', ``or
(d)'' before ``with respect to'', and ``or (d), as the case may be''
before the period.
Pub. L. 101-647, Sec. 2205(a)(2), redesignated subsec. (f) as (g).


Effective Date of 1990 Amendment

Section 2205(b) of Pub. L. 101-647 provided that: ``The amendments
made by subsection (a) [amending this section] shall apply to conduct
engaged in after the date of the enactment of this Act [Nov. 29,
1990].''

Note that pocket knives with blades less than 2.5" in length are permissible (section 930, subsection g, paragraph 3,) So that's what I carry. I am a responsible adult American, and I'll be damned if I'm going to claw and bite my way through a package of brochures. Also note that paragraph 3 of subsection d provides an exemption for "(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes."

To my mind, "other lawful purposes" would include CCW. This argument has been made before for carrying in post offices and such, but I can't find any clear resolution to the matter. I think there might be case law that negatively affects this

Anyway, I'm not too worried about it. Mindset, skillset, toolset, in that order, right? The lesson of the Tueller Drill can work in our favor, as well as against us.

 

[22-rimfire]

I will not be inviting ANY census worker into my home regardless of the weather. I'll probably be armed if interviewed. Hope they know that.