Deanimator
Member
Felons often carry concealed firearms...
Concealed Carry By Census Takers
- Thread starter wishin
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An advertisement in the local paper sought census workers. It would be interesting for a retired person to do. I don’t like the rules. I did not apply.
If you don’t want to abide by the rules don’t take the job.
What could be more simple?
If you don’t want to abide by the rules don’t take the job.
What could be more simple?
CajunBass
Member
I started to appy for it, but decided it wasn't worth the effort for a job that would be over in a month or two. Never gave the "carrying" thing a first thought, much less a second one.
gc70
Member
If I can tell that a census taker is carrying, their job tenure will be very short - "will you wait here for a moment while I finish a call (to your boss)."
ljnowell
Member
Are you serious? Someone is looking out for their own life while doing their job, and you would drop the dime on them and get them fired? For no reason?
SMMAssociates
Member
Somehow, I think that Acorn's people will be quite immune from any criticism of their desire to carry firearms....
'Course the rest of us....
(And, of course, the Administration might feel that if they have all the guns, nobody else needs 'em anyway.... )
Regards,
'Course the rest of us....
(And, of course, the Administration might feel that if they have all the guns, nobody else needs 'em anyway.... )
Regards,
I can't help but agree with you ljnowell. In some areas, I would expect them to be carrying.
That's a pretty strange attitude for someone on a pro-gun board to have. What's your major malfunction?
ShadyScott999
Member
In SC a CWP holder must have permission from the homeowner before entering with a weapon.
SMMAssociates
Member
Well, let's just say that if an ACORN employee turns up on my doorstep and is packing, they'd better have a license, or the PD will be discussing the situation with them....
My problem is that the hiring standards of ACORN are sufficiently suspect that I would expect them to tell their people (quietly) to carry regardless of a license. We can't support that when the organization is that shady to start with....
We support LEGAL concealed carry.... Unless you're in Alaska or Vermont, you have to have some kind of license or Open Carry. If the latter, it's a coin toss, but there's too much of a presumption of "problems" to accept it blindly.
Regards,
My problem is that the hiring standards of ACORN are sufficiently suspect that I would expect them to tell their people (quietly) to carry regardless of a license. We can't support that when the organization is that shady to start with....
We support LEGAL concealed carry.... Unless you're in Alaska or Vermont, you have to have some kind of license or Open Carry. If the latter, it's a coin toss, but there's too much of a presumption of "problems" to accept it blindly.
Regards,
ljnowell
Member
Acorn is not doing the nationwide census. Will they work in some areas, yes.
Why that has anything to do with every census employee, and why someone would try to get someone in trouble for carrying is beyond me. If you dont want them in your house, then dont let them in, but why would you call the cops when you dont even know the person. The hypocrisy of some of the people here is astounding.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/09/census-severs-relationship-with-acorn.html
Breaking news from last September
gc70
Member
My pro-gun attitude is based on pro-rights beliefs. If the government uses its power to compel me to do something, I may have to comply, but the government and its agents will be held strictly to the rules of the interaction.
If a LEO knocks on your door and wants to search your house, will you invite him in because he may be a nice guy and pro-guns, or will you demand a search warrant from the agent of the government?
ljnowell
Member
So what does that have to do with a citizen working a job who is carrying a legal CCW? They are not sworn officers, not there to serve a search warrant, nothing of the sort. You tell them how many people live there and wish them a nice day. Seems like making a lot of nothing, just like the "Acorn is running the census" opinion, which is false.
gc70
Member
When those citizens are "on the job" they are government agents and I expect government agents to follow the rules laid down by the government.
Gouranga
Member
You know, I can see an issue with a government worker going armed door to door as a census worker does causing distrust and making folks uneasy. So I can see why they would be banned from carry.
That being said, there is no way I would EVER do their job unarmed. LOL.
That being said, there is no way I would EVER do their job unarmed. LOL.
ljnowell
Member
They are not sworn agents, or law enforcement officers or any of the such. If the LAW says they can carry, then they should carry. If the "rules" arent law, then the rules can be ignored when ones life is the issue. Do you thoughts apply to the road construction worker also? What about the guy who mows the median on the interstate highway? He has just as much of a "Government Agent" status as the person taking the census.
This whole thing is blown out of proportion. No one likes the census, so lets hate the people doing it. If you said you would ask them to leave, fine. I can understand that some people dont want anyone else carrying in their house. Myself, I dont let anyone in my house that I couldnt trust to carry in my house, but thats just me. The census worker will go no further than my porch, and if they are carrying a gun, fine, concealed means concealed.
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gc70
Member
You may be okay with government agents ignoring the government's rule whenever they feel like it; I am not.
If I could tell that a census taker was carrying, shame on them for poor concealment. In all honesty, I would first tell a census taker who was carrying to leave (as is my right with any citizen) and come back when they were not carrying. If the census taker wanted to get officious about their legal authority to be there and my legal obligation to answer their questions, you can bet that I would make sure that the government's rules for the interaction with me were scrupulously adhered to.
ljnowell
Member
I like how you keep using the word "agents". You are attemting to paint a pictue that is false. No one here thinks its ok for a SWORN officer or agent to break any rules. IMO its every CITIZEN's right to protect themselves. Until they carry a badge and a gun (by agency requirement) they are a CITIZEN.
Thats a whole different story altogether. Like I said in my previous post, if you dont want someone carrying in your house, fine, your rules, throw them out. Better yet, dont let them in at all, you dont have to. Answer the questions on the porch, through the door. If they start some crap, by all means, call a supervisor, drop the dime. The thought of getting someone fired for no reason, other than you can, is not a High Road attitude, nor is it something that someone who believes in RKBA would do.
gc70
Member
If someone works for the government, they are an agent of the government.
We really are our own worst enemies if a person who claims to support the RKBA would have a person fired just because their concealment was not perfect enough to avoid their notice. Shame on you.
Next you'll be turning in the pizza guy because he's carrying a gun legally even though his employer's policy says they should not, just because you could tell he was carrying.
We're talking about getting someone fired for doing something that is perfectly legal, just over an issue of his firearm printing too much or some such. Sigh. You'll come back and say the pizza guy shouldn't be working that job if he can't follow the rules, just like the census guy shouldn't be working that job if he can't follow the rules. Unfortunately, sometimes you need to work to survive and you don't always get to be selective about your next job, especially in this economy.
Having a guy who claims to support the RKBA get you fired for doing just that would be a pathetic injustice.
People insisting that sworn agents should never break any rules are the same people who would pat those scumbag politicians in california on the back for having the gunshop who lent rifles to the police force during the LA shootout put out of business. 'but they broke the RUUUUULLLESSS'....well, sometimes a rule should be broken. Protecting a life is one of those times, either then (la shootout, lend a long gun to the LEO? sure.) or now (census worker needs to protect himself, pizza delivery man needs to protect himself). Life isn't black + white, and people who treat it that way are doing themselves and thieir peers a disservice.
I find it ironic to read this type of attitude on a forum where so often everyone agrees, 'better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6', but alas, hypocrisy is everywhere these days.
Next you'll be turning in the pizza guy because he's carrying a gun legally even though his employer's policy says they should not, just because you could tell he was carrying.
We're talking about getting someone fired for doing something that is perfectly legal, just over an issue of his firearm printing too much or some such. Sigh. You'll come back and say the pizza guy shouldn't be working that job if he can't follow the rules, just like the census guy shouldn't be working that job if he can't follow the rules. Unfortunately, sometimes you need to work to survive and you don't always get to be selective about your next job, especially in this economy.
Having a guy who claims to support the RKBA get you fired for doing just that would be a pathetic injustice.
People insisting that sworn agents should never break any rules are the same people who would pat those scumbag politicians in california on the back for having the gunshop who lent rifles to the police force during the LA shootout put out of business. 'but they broke the RUUUUULLLESSS'....well, sometimes a rule should be broken. Protecting a life is one of those times, either then (la shootout, lend a long gun to the LEO? sure.) or now (census worker needs to protect himself, pizza delivery man needs to protect himself). Life isn't black + white, and people who treat it that way are doing themselves and thieir peers a disservice.
I find it ironic to read this type of attitude on a forum where so often everyone agrees, 'better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6', but alas, hypocrisy is everywhere these days.
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Every employee of any employer, whether private or governmental, is an agent of his employer when acting in the course and scope of his employment.
ljnowell
Member
Great example. Simply put, its hypocrisy, plain and simple.
gc70
Member
It seems some people confuse supporting the RKBA with bending over for the government.
I support the RKBA of citizens. I do not support the unfettered authority of government - or of its representatives when they are dealing with me in their official capacity.
WRT the pizza guy, I can tell him to leave my property and he can't use the power and authority of the government to refuse. See the difference?
I support the RKBA of citizens. I do not support the unfettered authority of government - or of its representatives when they are dealing with me in their official capacity.
WRT the pizza guy, I can tell him to leave my property and he can't use the power and authority of the government to refuse. See the difference?
SMMAssociates
Member
I stand with gc70 on this....
If an individual shows up on my property from something like ACORN, I want him off it.... Now!
Since I can't apparently do that, I want the ability to make a stink about it, and if an illegally carried firearm is "available", that'll do nicely.
If an individual who's presence I want is on my property, the most I'd care to do is tell him if he's printing too much, etc. Unless, of course, he's mishandling the weapon, and then my first task would be to try to correct that. If I don't want 'em here, it's usually a Jehovah's Witness or some kind of salesperson. I treat them politely whenever possible. The gun enters the "procedure" only if they're not nice about leaving.
If an ACORN operative showed up armed, legally or not, the folks at Pravda would be quite interested, I hope, and anything I can do to discredit that organization is a good thing.... Under Ohio Law, I can tell the guy to leave, or at least go put it back in his vehicle or store it otherwise off my property. Does this conflict with the Federal laws involved in the Census? Dunno.... If I can do that, and it embarrasses ACORN and bHo, great....
In short, I'm using their foolish laws (Criminal Protection Zone) against them.... The only potential problem is that the local rag may be in bed with them to the point that only Fox would report it....
(If we have any Witnesses on board, please understand that I have considerable respect for your faith. It's just that this old Jewish guy ain't changing his religion, so your time would be better spent elsewhere.)
Regards,
If an individual shows up on my property from something like ACORN, I want him off it.... Now!
Since I can't apparently do that, I want the ability to make a stink about it, and if an illegally carried firearm is "available", that'll do nicely.
If an individual who's presence I want is on my property, the most I'd care to do is tell him if he's printing too much, etc. Unless, of course, he's mishandling the weapon, and then my first task would be to try to correct that. If I don't want 'em here, it's usually a Jehovah's Witness or some kind of salesperson. I treat them politely whenever possible. The gun enters the "procedure" only if they're not nice about leaving.
If an ACORN operative showed up armed, legally or not, the folks at Pravda would be quite interested, I hope, and anything I can do to discredit that organization is a good thing.... Under Ohio Law, I can tell the guy to leave, or at least go put it back in his vehicle or store it otherwise off my property. Does this conflict with the Federal laws involved in the Census? Dunno.... If I can do that, and it embarrasses ACORN and bHo, great....
In short, I'm using their foolish laws (Criminal Protection Zone) against them.... The only potential problem is that the local rag may be in bed with them to the point that only Fox would report it....
(If we have any Witnesses on board, please understand that I have considerable respect for your faith. It's just that this old Jewish guy ain't changing his religion
, so your time would be better spent elsewhere.)Regards,
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