Concealed carry, "how to" practical gear approach

[anothernewb]

Having a bit of a tough time explaining just what I'm getting at, so bear with me. Much is made of the mentality of deciding to carry, and there are classes and training about how to handle yourself when you carry.

But what about the practical methods of integrating it? how does one go about choosing or even researching how best to incorporate carrying, what holsters work for what kind of situation, what carry options are appropriate to certain lifstyles? another thread about carrying got me thinking.

another way of explaining it - while the mentality is the same; one likely needs different levels of concealment and different tools as a truck driver or as an outdoor contract construction worker than as a professional in a public office, or a technical repair person.

I can find tons of classes and theorems about the mentality and situational awareness - but I can find nothing about "this style of holster works pretty good in this kind of environment" kind of thing. Where does one exactly research the pro's and con's of types, and for others like me - who know virtually nothing about the various types of holsters out there - and the best way to use them. Where does one learn what's available -other than wandering around a shop window shopping. Even an obvious. "don't wear a full size shoulder rig under your form fitting under armor shirt that's tight on you, and then go for a run" - "it's gonna print". - would be of great help to me sometime.

Then again, this is all probably covered somewhere and I just haven't figured out how to appropriately search for it.

or am I just thinking wrong....

 

[Sam1911]

The best bet is to simply ask. That's the sort of thing THR is FOR.

You can browse through our Holsters sub forum for ideas. Go to places like Milt Sparks', Alessi's, DeSantis', and many other holster makers' web sites and see what they offer and what guns they seem to be aiming to carry with their different designs.

But really, just ask. Much simpler and faster.

 

[lemaymiami]

For the guy or gal that will be carrying for the first time it might be helpful to remember that your own preferences, experiences, and living situation will change as you begin carrying a sidearm. You'll try different weapons and means of carry over time (at least everyone I knew did -and I was in police work for 22 years). Various methods of carrying/concealing a sidearm will be recommended by folks with experience -but it will still be each individual's choice of what they can actually live with.. For me, no matter how inviting they appeared I never found a shoulder holster rig I could live with, period. For many years I carried a medium frame auto pistol in an ankle holster - most that I knew couldn't tolerate one at all...

Welcome to being an armed citizen. You'll learn what works and what doesn't -mostly through experience. Opinions from seasoned citizens will help point the way....

 

[Spats McGee]

As Sam pointed out, just ask us. I've been carrying for about 4 yeas now. I've carried IWB, OWB, leather, kydex, hybrid, pocket pistols, full sized pistols, mid-sized pistols . . . And I suspect that there are many on THR who've done much the same thing. There are lots of references to "the drawer full of holsters" that most of us have. In my current carry rotation, I have something like 5 holsters in my current rotation, just because I have needs that change according to what I'm wearing, where I'm going, and the weather.

I don't know what your wardrobe is like, but here's The Stylish Man’s Guide to Concealed Carry. Your wardrobe and lifestyle is very important in determining what you can or should carry and how. Now, I'm a "carry whenever and wherever legal" kind of guy. I'm in suits most of the time and even on casual Friday at the office, I'm in khakis and a coat, just in case I get called to court. That means that I can hide something in a Crossbreed Supertuck pretty much full time (though I'm often in and out of places where carry is illegal). If you spend a lot of time without a jacket, a tuckable IWB is a possibility, as it pocket carry.

If you'll give us some ideas about your lifestyle and wardrobe, I feel certain that we can help you out here. It's unlikely that there's just NOBODY on THR who hasn't had to answer the same CC questions that you have.

 

[TestPilot]

but I can find nothing about "this style of holster works pretty good in this kind of environment" kind of thing. Where does one exactly research the pro's and con's of types, and for others like me - who know virtually nothing about the various types of holsters out there - and the best way to use them

Too many variables.

A holster that is comfortable for me may put you in agony. A pocket holster and pistol combination that allows a decent draw speed may turn in to a 10 second fumble when you buy a very similar pants with a slightly different pocket opening design.

Anyway, here is what I found out so far:

- Belt holster carry from 3~9 O'clock position is only practical outside of close social gathering, unless you are willing to shout "Don't fricken hug me!!!" at every gathering or don't particularly care if people know you are carrying.

Appendix carry may have less of that problem, since that is an awkward part for someone to purposely reach.


- If you have a habit of crossing your legs when you sit, don't even think about ankle holsters. I don't recommend ankle holster in general. Draw time is slow. You may not be able to even reach it during a stuggle. God forbid you wear any modern jeans with narrow bottom opening, etc.

It also has a problem with plausibility. People are used to seeing bulge around waist line. But, when people see a black nylon bulge sticking under a pants leg, most think "Gun!!!"

How do I know this? Every time someone sees my ankle pouch, which contains no gun, they ask me if it's a gun. A cop ordered me out of a car, not because she saw my gun, but because she saw my ankle pouch. Other than that, I can walk through a group of cops on the street with more than 1 gun and multiple magazines without being spotted (keep in mind that I live in a VERY anti-gun locale).

- Pocket carry: I find this the most effective discreet carry method for me. Not so many sane people grope that area purposely. Even if they feel something, they cannot conclude it is a gun. Draw time is nowhere near effective as an OWB belt holster, but may not be significantly different from other forms, such as IWB tucked over.

You may even have a draw speed advantage in some situations where you already have a grip on your gun inside your pocket as you are walking past a potential threat.

The severe weakness of this form of carry is when sitting, especially in a car with seatbelts on.

- Appendix carry: This allows you to have a pistol on a belt holster with less risk of discovery by hugging or "bump check(someone purposely bumping into you to check for weapons)." Draw time is reasonably fast. Ca be generally drawn from most positions, except when you're ground fighting with an opponent on top of you, sitting on your holster.

It does have some weakness. The size of the pistol that allows you do be inconspiculous is smaller than what a 4~8 O'clock position would allow. An inch and a half may not sound like much, but it can really stick out as if you stuffed an IV bag there, and even less bulge can look awkward because it is asymmetrical where people expect symmetry. Some people may not be able to make it work at all, unless they wear a really baggy shirt.

And, that leads to the second problem: You need an untucked shirt or an overgarment with closed front. That may not always meet your attire requirements. Some try to get away with open front jacket or vest, but I personally think that is idiotic. Even 3 or 9 O'clock position can occasionally be revealed with open front jacket. That's why I usually have belt holsters from 4 ~ 8 O'clock position.

Some strongly advocate this position, claiming that it is best for drawing while seated in a car. But, that is not necessarily true. If you carry on the right side appendix position, that is exactly where the seat belt covers. Lifting the baggy shirt that is strapped over by a seatbelt also makes it harder, which may require additional time to release the seatbelt. Releasing the seatbelt presents at least two problems. First, it eats up time. Second, it telegraphs to your opponent that the fight is on. I actually have faster draw time from my 4 O'clock OWB holster covered by an overgarment than 2 O'clock appendix IWB in real-life setting.

"Real-life setting" is critical. What seems to work better in training environment with model cars with wide interior, no seatbelts, etc., may not in real-life setting.

 

[ImperatorGray]

It's all going to come down to what comprises you are and aren't willing to make: Compromises in what you carry, compromises in what you wear, and compromises in how accessible your weapon is.

The "what works for you" factor is going to affect how big each potential compromise is. So I'll tell you what works for me (and doesn't) just to give examples.

Compromises in what I carry: I'm a life-long 1911 guy. If I'm at a formal function, in a suit jacket, I can hide a full-size Government Model with absolutely no problem. Plenty of other people can carry one wearing a lot less no problem, and I did for a while, but I had to be constantly distracted by the thought that it could be printing under just a shirt. So I ditched that for a piece I don't like as much, a Kahr CW9.

I'm fine with it, but I wouldn't compromise by carrying anything smaller unless I really had no choice.

Compromises in what I wear: I carry IWB, in simple hybrid holsters. They are inexpensive, secure (after a few minutes with a hair dryer to fit to your specific weapon), and take up almost no space. This means all my pants are two inches too big, and even if I'm going somewhere I can't carry a weapon, I have to wear an empty holster to keep my pants inflated. That's a compromise that drives some people nuts. For me, it's absolutely not an issue.

Some people design their entire wardrobe around what they carry. I once heard a trainer say that anyone who is serious about carrying must buy a "concealed carry vest" and wear it at all times. I am simply not willing to make this compromise: A vest is not something I am comfortable in, and to me they scream "I'm armed, everybody!" and so defeat the purpose.

Most days you'll find me in a polo shirt with nothing on top of it, because that's what I'm comfortable in. My compromise on carry weapon allows me to carry without compromising what I wear.

Compromises in accessibility: Meaning, most likely, ankle or pocket carry. In rare circumstances when I simply cannot carry elsewhere but am still legally allowed to pack a firearm, I have occasionally strapped a weapon to my ankle. I'm comfortable with that for the brief periods of time I use it, because I prefer it to being unarmed.

But the idea of bending over to pull up my pant legs and retrieve my weapon is not one I'm OK with for everyday carry. Some people are, for various reasons.

Personally, I've never tried pocket carry. It's not really an option for the size of weapon I like to have, and I don't like the holsters for it (I want something that secures the trigger). But again, that's me - it doesn't have to be you.


So yeah, in the end, it's about what works for you. If you have the chance, try stuff on "for size" before you buy. If you don't have buddies in the area you can borrow from, then you just end up with that drawer of carry options and so become the guy who helps other friends down the line try before they when they get licensed down the line.

 

[Bobson]

Kind of going one step further with the "too many variables" and "just ask" advice...

THR has a really broad membership base, with a ton of experience to draw from. If you start a thread with some basic information about yourself, you can get some excellent advice tailored to your specific needs, rather than worrying about how everyone does it. Some suggested things to include in your thread:

1. Your body type (height/weight).
2. The kind of clothes you like to wear.
3. Climate where you live.
4. Your career, or at least your daily work environment.
5. Your health in terms of strength, dexterity, stamina,
6. How familiar are you with handguns? Preference as far as pistols versus revolvers, if any?

This type of information is too vague to identify you, but it's going to be enormously useful in giving you helpful, practical advice about what will work for you.

 

[lemaymiami]

Bobson just said it all... very well said. I once worked with a former marine who told me the correct answer to any question was "Sir, it depends on the situation, the terrain, and the weather". I knew I could always count on him, too. What I carried, how I carried that weapon, and how I was dressed were pretty good for Miami... but probably not worth much up north... and so it goes.

 

[herrwalther]

Best advice I can give you is clean out a drawer. This will be your holster drawer. It will get filled up with holsters you don't like or don't like all that much. If you are lucky, you won't go through many uncomfortable holsters until you find the one that fits you best. You will know when that holster fits well, because it will feel like your sidearm isn't there anymore.

My favorite holster is a White Hat Maxtuck.

 

[RustyShackelford]

You're thinking wrong.....

You are thinking wrong.
Top instructor & combat veteran; Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch says; Concealed guns are comforting not comfortable.

There is no magic formula or perfect gun that will suit all your carry needs. You need to decide what works best for you or your style of dress/working conditions/environment.
You may need to try different carry methods or holsters to see what meets your needs. No forum member or gun shop employee can give you the "right" answer.
If you work in a office/business casual environment, a small frame pistol or J frame revolver in a IWB holster or bike short/under-shirt rig may work best.
If you often wear vests or jackets/sport coats, you might look into a OWB holster or a shoulder holster.
If you chose to carry a gun, learn to be a "quiet professional". Don't spout off about your gun all the time or tell people you just met or know/work with casually that you are armed. Don't feel you need to "teach" people about 2A issues or lecture them about why you carry a firearm. Be discreet & use common sense.
Some colors work better than others and some fabrics/patterns lend themselves to CCW.
COL Charles Beckwith, the founder & commanding officer of the elite Delta Force had a "fashion consultant" teach the unit members how to dress & how to quickly conceal weapons in different situations.
For more insight, read author David Merrill's novel; The Protector.

 

[TRX]

> Concealed guns are comforting not comfortable.

Unless you live in one of the few open carry states, no concealment means "no gun." Which when violate's the First Rule of Gunfighting: "Bring a gun."

There's no comfort at all in a gun you left at home...

 

[mljdeckard]

Or....try a few and see what works. Nothing is going to be more meaningful than what works for YOU.

 

[BSA1]

As you can tell from the responses so far most of us have a lot of experience with holsters...especially the ones that didn't work out.

My first comment is everything is a compromise. What is your lifestyle and how do you like to dress?

For example I am a blue jean guy. I've worn jeans all my life. The only time I dress up was for my job at the time and more formal activities like going to church. In my part of the country older guys wear colored tee-shirts tucked in. Since we have a lot of farmers they also wear their shirts tucked in (safety reasons when working around farm machines).

Our summers get dang hot, very hot, 90's and 100's degrees common for several months. Jacket, vest forgit it. Even businessmen shed their jackets when possible going for shirt and tie. Conceal Carry under a tucked in tee-shirt not! Open Carry is a practical and easiest option but most either go with smaller guns or forgo carrying altogether.

Winter on the other hand presents a different set of challenges. I dress in layers, undershirt. pull-over hoodie, vest or coat. C.C. is not a problem but getting to my gun under all those layers is.

What hasn't been mentioned yet is in addition to all of those holsters we have (mine are in a large Tupperware container) most of us have gone through a lot of different guns trying to find the elusive perfect one. The hardest part to conceal is the grip. The 1911 is large, heavy gun and the squared bottom of the grip prints easy. Double stacks and revolvers bulge. So forth, so forth.

If you not choose a gun yet for carrying check out this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=762657

 

[anothernewb]

lots of advice. thanks for all the thoughts. Looks like a need instead to think a bit differently. Some good suggestions. I'll try to cover the basics to give a genera feel.

Physical: I'm 6'1, between 190 and 200 depending on summer vs winter (love me that holiday food!) and I've held that spread for nearly a decade. I consider myself in good physical shape, but I'm not a built guy. more wiry. although passing 40 means that the 6 pack is gone a little more towards a party ball, but it's still mostly in check. thankfully flexibility is still there.

The biggest hurdle I face is that I'm a lefty. been working on the right hand, but the left hand and eye are the dominant by far. Being a southpaw is probably the biggest detriment to a shooter. some stuff you can learn to ignore, but the rest all has to be custom tailored.

Attire. 75% of the time I'm in dress pants and a collared shirt of some form. be it button up or a polo. tucked in. Don't wear jackets much, other than outdoor stuff when weather dictates. my "dress down" is usually t shirt and jeans, but I'm often in "workout" type pants as well - shorts depending on weather as well.
When cruising on the bike I have some basic leathers, but nothing fancy there.

I do GIS - essentially technical office work with a little bit of field time.

Climate. Central MN. I stay pretty close to weather patterns. minimal in summer, good coat in winter.

what else - all the usual people I am either friends with or professional counterparts I associate with either are law enforcement, carry themselves and the remaining are totally aware of my 2A opinions, lol. so no one I am likely to come into contact with under normal circumstances will be surprised if they discover I am carrying as well.

non-professional time is largely spent fishing (seasonal) or the usual casual environments. not much of a bar hopper, but I like my restaurants. I do a bit of occasional handyman work so I am sometimes in and out of various people's homes - but I'm fairly particular about who I'll work for since it's not my primary, just the extra fun money.

perhaps something to mention is what caused the switch to deciding to carry. the simple reason is awareness. because of my professional career, I often work in conjunction with law enforcement, between them, and a few friends I've made as a professional, I have really had my eyes opened to what I've never noticed before about where I live. Becoming a homeowner has also stirred a bit of awareness. I've been living rather sheltered. I consider myself a (fairly) open minded and charitable person. There are a lot of very nice people out there, and I pretty much instinctively associated with like minded people.
However, I never noticed just how many there were that have little or no value for others, or who are just one step away from running you down if if's convenient for their own ends.

familiarity with handguns. That I guess could be considered a loaded question, lol. I would consider myself familiar with them. I know my own personal guns quite well, and practice weekly with all of them. However, I have not been shooting that long, only a couple years - so in that sense some would consider me to be inexperienced.
With regards to pistols specific to carrying, I have 2 that I would consider a "carry" piece, with a 3rd on the way. Currently I have a Sig Ultra, a 2 1/4" SP101 in 357 and a Sig 938 on the way.
I am willing to say that I shoot both the ruger and the sig fairly well, although I think I would give the edge to the sig at this time.

 

[RBid]

People make this way too complicated. Here are some filters that I'd suggest:

1. Ask yourself which handgun you would want to be holding if you had to shoot to live. Carry as close to that as you will commit to carrying every day.

2. Get a real gun belt.

3. Carry in a holster and location from which you can at least draw and get 3 hits on target with at 3 yards, in 3 seconds. If I recall correctly, Tom Givens has said this is a reasonable minimum expectation, and the FBI determined that something like 75% of their field agent gunfights were surprises within this distance (which is why their qual was revised).


If your goal is to carry a gun, don't. It's not an ascot. If your goal is to give yourself the best reasonable chance to survive a nightmare, make decisions accordingly.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Me....

I too am left handed.
From what you posted, Id advise carrying the SIG 938 9x19mm in a 5.11 Tactical undershirt(under a collared or dress shirt/neck-tie). You'll be able to access the 938 quickly with either hand in a pinch & it will conceal well.
You can tote a extra SIG 9mm magazine or two in a pocket holster/holder from a good brand like www.stickyholsters.com or DeSantis(Nemnesis). Id advise carrying at least one loaded magazine with your compact 938 9mm, . 2/3 would not hurt either.
In colder climates or winter conditions you can convert to a shoulder rig under a fleece pullover or thick jacket. Unless people hug you or you bend & twist around a lot, I doubt any co-workers or causal visitors will spot a small 9mm.
Many detectives & plain-clothes cops in urban, cold weather areas would carry a "New York Reload" or carry a second gun/back up.
To carry a pistol that can use the same spare magazines is smart but to have a snub .38spl +P or .357magnum 5 shot(like your SP101) can be a help when gloves/thick coats may slow your reloading down.
Gunfights & critical incidents rarely occur when you are ready or when you can expect them.
To have a plan & to prepare in different climates or conditions is smart.

 

[ImperatorGray]

Have you tried autoloaders lacking thumb safeties, such as the Kahrs? Might be a help as a lefty.

I'm your build and carry an SP101 IWB loaded with rat shot when in thick viper country. I can get away with it with shirt untucked, but tucked in it prints.

The Kahr CW9 hides well with shirt tucked over it just fine. If you're happy with the thumb safety on the Sigs, the smaller one should absolutely disappear if carried in a hybrid, tuckable holster, and you might have good luck with the larger one, too.

This is an effective belt for carry that won't break the bank: http://www.511tactical.com/double-duty-tdu-belt-1-5.html Stepless adjustment, works with more than one color of pants, good and thick to grip holster attachments and good ans tiff to spread the weaight.

 

[Spats McGee]

On left-handedness: I'm not a lefty, but most of the holster makers of which I am aware do make both holsters for both left- and right-handed carry.

Also, I don't know what you're planning on carrying, but IIRC, the mag releases on Gen4 Glocks can be reversed for left-handed operation.

Good luck in your search.

 

[Nom de Forum]

You are thinking wrong.
Top instructor & combat veteran; Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch says; Concealed guns are comforting not comfortable.

“Concealed guns are comforting not comfortable”* Clint’s comment while certainly pithy is now anachronistic. I suspect his opinion is based on a bias toward concealed carry of full size pistols in calibers “that better start with a 4”* and specifically 1911 style pistols that are all heavy for size/capacity. It has always been possible to comfortably carry a concealed gun it is just now easier to do. Pistol and holster construction material and design are hugely better at making carry choices comfortable than when I was a youth. I think Clint, who has done much I respect, is missing a crucial point about carrying. What you carry must be comfortable or at least not uncomfortable to avoid the worst of scenarios in order of severity: hinderance of normal movement, detection, discard due to discomfort. Frankly because the pistol I am carrying is so comfortable I almost forget about it until I must remove it due to a prohibited location or suspicion of a threat.

There is no magic formula or perfect gun that will suit all your carry needs. You need to decide what works best for you or your style of dress/working conditions/environment.

That’s an X in the 10 ring.


*Phrases becoming platitudinous, becoming well known to be inaccurate, and consequently losing credibility.

 

[CWL]

Best advice I can give you is clean out a drawer. This will be your holster drawer. It will get filled up with holsters you don't like or don't like all that much. If you are lucky, you won't go through many uncomfortable holsters until you find the one that fits you best. You will know when that holster fits well, because it will feel like your sidearm isn't there anymore.

My favorite holster is a White Hat Maxtuck.

This is the correct answer! Unfortunately, there comes lots of trial & error, and due to the seasons in MN, you may need multiple choices.

Also, don't skimp on the gun belt. Figure out what max amount of $ you can spend for a belt, and double it!

 

[Warp]

Figure out what max amount of $ you can spend for a belt, and double it!

I'm not sure that's necessarily how it works.

 

[Plan2Live]

A while back I voiced a similar opinion as the OP regarding no real practical way to determine the best gun/holster/carry method. In my post I suggested that it would be helpful if gun stores had sample holsters to try on and maybe even go so far as to have some common models of pistols, rendered unable to fire and properly weighted to match the weight and feel of a fully loaded pistol, available for customers to try on. As logical as this approach sounded to me, I was flooded with post after post telling me why this wouldn't work. Maybe someday I will win the lottery and be able to give this theory a try.

 

[Warp]

A while back I voiced a similar opinion as the OP regarding no real practical way to determine the best gun/holster/carry method. In my post I suggested that it would be helpful if gun stores had sample holsters to try on and maybe even go so far as to have some common models of pistols, rendered unable to fire and properly weighted to match the weight and feel of a fully loaded pistol, available for customers to try on. As logical as this approach sounded to me, I was flooded with post after post telling me why this wouldn't work. Maybe someday I will win the lottery and be able to give this theory a try.

It's a nice idea but you need the belt, holster, and gun, all together to really tell. And then you have to stand, sit this kind of chair, sit in that kind of chair, sit in a car, etc, before you really find out.

 

[Nebeel'sWife]

Well this is a interesting read as I'm just starting to look into carrying. Some things to think about. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Plan2Live]

It's a nice idea but you need the belt, holster, and gun, all together to really tell. And then you have to stand, sit this kind of chair, sit in that kind of chair, sit in a car, etc, before you really find out.

Correct. So some typical chairs, mock restaurant booth, cab of a standard cab pickup, maybe a small truck like a Ford Ranger, etc. to get the feel of moving around with the rig. You're catching on.

The arguments ranged from "people would just use your place as a showroom then go home and order off the Internet" to "you'd have to install a bullet trap for loading and unloading". Hmm, there are answers for both of those objections but I don't have the cash to set it up and prove the nay sayers wrong so for now they win which makes the OP correct, there isn't a good way to figure out what works for you.