Convincing my Mom that it's okay for me to OC

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Skribs

Skribs

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I've decided that I soon want to join the ranks of open-carriers, simply to make a statement for 2A rights. I am a bit nervous about starting (I compare it to wearing a Speedo, which I never have), but I want to soon, because it's a political cause I actually believe in, and those are few and far between.

Anyway, I broke the news to my mother (I am 23, live with my parents, but will be getting my own place at the end of the month), and she was unsurprisingly less-than-thrilled. Her first reaction, "you'll get arrested!" was easily turned away by explaining that anywhere you can CC in Washington, you can OC as well. However, she still has three big fears:
1) If I CC, I have the element of surprise, and if someone wants to mug me, they'll not be expecting my piece (I tried the "if they mug someone who's OC'ing, they deserve a Darwin Award", but she still thinks its dangerous).
2) If I OC, people will see that I have a gun, and may try to rob my place. My perspective is that if I'm there, I'll have easier access to my gun than they will (easy-access safe). My other perspective is that if I'm not there, and they steal my weapons, then insurance will cover me.
3) If I OC and someone attacks me and I shoot that person, then it might be used by the antis to say I provoked the attack.

Anyway, she still thinks its dangerous and more likely to get me into trouble than help the cause. I'm still planning on starting soon, regardless of what she thinks, but I of course want my Mom to not worry about me. Anyone have any advice on what I can tell her?

I should add: my Mom is pro-gun. Out of the three of us (my Mom, my Dad, and I) my mother is usually the best shot with a caliber she can control. She owns her own Ruger SP101 that we bought her for her birthday, and she knows that I CC, and is fine with it.
 
Just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth (zero). Why announce yourself as a target if something did happen? You lose the advantage of surprise, you make yourself a target, and it just ticks people off (even though its legal). If I'm carrying, I'd rather nobody knows it unless I have to use it. It makes life smoother. Besides, ya shouldn't upset your Momma!
 
As with every time OC comes up, care to cite an instance of an open carrier being blitzed/targeted in some kind of attack?

Won't hold my breath.
 
For (1), try to find some stories about an OCer being targeted by a violent criminal because they're visibly armed. I'll wait, you might be able to find a few, but not as many as those who oppose OC would want you to believe are out there.

For (2), a good mounted safe will do wonders to protect any firearms collection you may have from all but the most determined and well-prepared thieves. On top of that, a well thought out home defense plan to include not having vehicles parked in an everyday standard place in your driveway, lights and televisions on timers, an alarm system among other things will also deter all but the most determined thieves from trying to rob you while you're not home. Smart thieves (they do exist) will likely rather not bother you while you're home if they know you go armed, because they don't want to get shot just as much as we don't. Worst case you do get robbed and have a collection stolen, make sure your home owners insurance will cover the cost.

For (3), if you do have to go through the worst case scenario and end up being brought up on charges, you have more things to worry about than the manner in which you carry your firearm, and should be consulting a good criminal defense attorney anyways, who should have some sort of plan for making your mode of carry as much of a non-issue as possible.

Edit: For (3) also, hardcore antis will use even the most textbook self-defense shootings against the 2a community, because that's what they do. Doesn't matter whether the victim was concealing or carrying openly.
 
For (1), try to find some stories about an OCer being targeted by a violent criminal because they're visibly armed. I'll wait, you might be able to find a few, but not as many as those who oppose OC would want you to believe are out there.
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That's the problem. She remembers that a friend of hers when she was younger had a father that had guns, and some hotshots wanted to steal said guns. The friend was awake when they were in the house, went in to investigate, and was shot and killed.

For (2), a good mounted safe will do wonders to protect any firearms collection you may have from all but the most determined and well-prepared thieves. On top of that, a well thought out home defense plan to include not having vehicles parked in an everyday standard place in your driveway, lights and televisions on timers, an alarm system among other things will also deter all but the most determined thieves from trying to rob you while you're not home. Smart thieves (they do exist) will likely rather not bother you while you're home if they know you go armed, because they don't want to get shot just as much as we don't. Worst case you do get robbed and have a collection stolen, make sure your home owners insurance will cover the cost.
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It's a bit different for me - I'll be living on a 3rd floor condo with multiple locks between my door and the outside. So that means less likely that people will randomly break into my house, but if I'm targeted, it's a different story.

For (3), if you do have to go through the worst case scenario and end up being brought up on charges, you have more things to worry about than the manner in which you carry your firearm, and should be consulting a good criminal defense attorney anyways, who should have some sort of plan for making your mode of carry as much of a non-issue as possible.

Edit: For (3) also, hardcore antis will use even the most textbook self-defense shootings against the 2a community, because that's what they do. Doesn't matter whether the victim was concealing or carrying openly.
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I was more concerned with the later, since my carrying would be for the purpose of raising 2A awareness.

Ask your mother why uniformed police open carry.
Next ask her when was the last time she heard of a LEO getting robbed while on duty. :)
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Good advice.
 
simply to make a statement for 2A rights
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Don't see that with OC - what I see are video game commandos who want to try and shove it into folks' face as a blatant act that makes them uneasy - serving no good purpose

Not everything that is legal is also logical
 
Go to the Washington sub-forum at opencarry.org. Find an OC lunch or dinner in your area. Attend, and bring your mom. Perhaps a chance to talk with folks who have been OC'ing for a while might help her. Oh, just tell her you're taking her out to eat.
 
I think I should probably point out that I'm not opposed to open carry. I just see that it makes things smoother if people are ignorant of my situation.
 
zoom6zoom said:
Go to the Washington sub-forum at opencarry.org. Find an OC lunch or dinner in your area. Attend, and bring your mom. Perhaps a chance to talk with folks who have been OC'ing for a while might help her. Oh, just tell her you're taking her out to eat.
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+1 for this. Great forum over there.
 
Maybe a compromise is in order. There may be situations where CC is preferable to OC for you and vice-versa. You can be a patriot without waving a flag all the time.
 
I support you on this. If only my Mom didn't have a freak out when I came out as a gun nut.
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I got my parents into guns. They weren't antis, but weren't (and still aren't) nuts like I am. I've been into guns as long as I can remember, and my parents know that. My mom's got stories from when I was a toddler (at church, of all places) and I hadn't been taught about guns yet, but we were playing games with guns made out of Legos. So yeah...they weren't at all surprised when I got my CWP and bought a pistol.
 
You're 23. Do you're research, check you're options, then get some quality training, get a CCW and don't worry about it. In any crowd a gun draws attention, some good some bad, by the time you figure out which type it is it may be too late. Keep a low profile. Then you get to decide if you participate or just walk away, keep all your options open.
 
If everyone oc then no one would have issues with it, also the people who are harping on the oc idea are just people who fear others with guns that they cant directly control, personally i say carry one openly and keep one extra concealed just to throw em off.
 
I open carry all the time in Washington. There are no real issues in Washington with open carrying. As was suggested, check out the Washington subforum of opencarry.org. I am a member there. Our get togethers are great!

As far as making you a target, read printed page 12 of this document (electronic page 20):
http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.0/Gun-Facts-v6.0-screen.pdf

It makes absolutely no sense for a criminal to attack Joe Citizen who is known/seen to be armed. It is much easier for them to wait two minutes for Joe Citizen who is armed to leave, or to go down the street 1 block to the next convenience store where Joe Citizen with a gun is not there. When 99.5% of the population does not visibly carry a firearm, why in the world would any criminal pick the .5% that does as a target?

Criminals have 3 main goals: 1. To get what they want. 2. To get what they want with the minimal amount of effort. 3. To get what they want without getting caught.

Attacking an armed citizen greatly reduces the chances of any of those three goals from being accomplished. Mom, and the concealed carry only crowd, says you give up the element of surprise. But you gain the element of deterrence. The MAJORITY of criminals say they will be deterred by a known firearm. Why? Because there is absolutely NO REASON whatsoever for them to attack Joe Citizen who they know has the ability to kill them.

Relying upon the element of surprise, you are betting the you will be able to get your gun out of concealment and effectively fire at the criminal before they notice you doing so. It's like playing wild west quick draw. Is that what you really want to hope for? ESPECIALLY since you will be drawing your firearm in response to an attack that has already begun?

Why would I take the chance to put my family through the trauma of the attack, seeing me shoot at someone, possibly killing them, and then the expense and process of a possible court case, either criminal or civil? With open carry, I have a CHANCE of deterring the attack from ever happening. With concealed carry, I have ZERO chance of deterring the attack; concealed carry only allows me to defend my family AFTER the attack has already happened, which means the criminal ALREADY has gained the upper hand. So, why would I willingly give up the deterrence factor?

In Washington state, people don't go screaming in terror at the sight of a gun. The majority of people who talk to me about my gun are supportive of it. The majority of people who make negative comments about my gun are concealed carry only snobs. There is a very small minority that will call the cops, and in most places in WA the LE agencies know that open carry is perfectly legal and won't bother you. I've had my one negative encounter with a LEO due to a man with a gun call. After about 5 minutes of harassment, I simply called his bluff and told him to write me a ticket for whatever law he thought I was violating and I would meet him again in court. That was the end of it. He didn't write a ticket because he knew he had nothing. The restaurant where it happened (at dinner time) told me they supported my right to carry a firearm and to please come back, with my friends, family and firearms, they did not call the police, some other customer did.

If you want to open carry, go for it. I would get your CPL, if you don't have it, so that you can carry loaded in your vehicle and conceal when you want to. Again, opencarry.org is a great place! Tell them NavyLCDR sent you!
 
Wow, great post Navy. I have visited that site, but briefly read it and haven't joined yet. I bookmarked that link, and those facts make sense. Then again, there are people who don't make sense...let me see if I can find it. Unfortunately, the official Darwin Award for this seems to be screwed up, but I found it quoted in another thread here:

"A man tried to commit a robbery in Renton, WA. This was probably his first attempt, as suggested by the fact that he had no previous record of violent crime, and by his terminally stupid choices as listed below:

1. The target was H&J Leather & Firearms, a gun shop.

2. The shop was full of customers, in a state where a substantial portion of the adult population is licensed to carry concealed handguns in public places.

3. To enter the shop, he had to step around a marked Police patrol car parked at the front door.

4. An officer in uniform was standing next to the counter, having coffee before reporting to duty.

Upon seeing the officer, the would-be robber announced a holdup and fired a few wild shots. The officer and a clerk promptly returned fire, removing him from the gene pool. Several other customers also drew their guns, but didn't fire. No one else was hurt."
 
To answer the OP, go and OC. Take small steps, go to your local stores first. You'll gain more confidence the more you do it. I am very social when I OC, smile a lot, be courteous. Most people probably think I'm a cop b/c I'm never asked about my gun. Make sure you have a good retention holster and learn how to position yourself when in line so your gun is away from people.

After that, then go out together while you OC. She'll have confidence seeing how you carry yourself while OC. I go visit my parents who in CA so I obviously don't carry in CA. So when my mom comes and visits me, she freaked out. Keep in mind, I'm 34 yrs old, married, a state employee, and I'm a FFL dealer. I told it it's okay, I do this all the time and act like it's not a big deal. She never brings it up or worries about it anymore...so she says. Mom will be moms.
 
"Making a statement about 2A rights" is not a good reason for OC. Quite the contrary -- it will have the opposite effect on most people's view of gun owners. Being deliberately provocative is not the way to make friends.

Obviously CC gives you tactical advantages that you lose with OC. Think again about what you're trying to do, and listen to your mother.
 
Free advice (and worth every penny!)

The OP is 23. I am 63.

When I was 23 I thought I knew it all. One thing I certainly didn't know was how to turn aside wrath -- someone else's or my own. If someone wanted a fight I was more than ready to mix it up with 'em. I lacked the wisdom to avoid being goaded.

And if I wanted to do something that my folks advised against doing, I had no shortage of rationalizations for doing it anyway. I'm lucky to still be alive today, considering what a schmuck I was.

But one way I've stayed alive, even though I've walked some mean streets, has been to keep 'em guessing. As in poker, let 'em wonder what you might be holding...

From the perspective of my 6 decades on the planet, I don't know why someone would want to surrender the element of surprise (not to mention all the advantages of keeping a low profile and not putting your business in the street) for the sake of making a political statement.

And if one of your rationalizations is that cops OC, then maybe you should become a cop. I knew a guy who worked in a gun store and loved guns so much that he became a cop and [EDIT: although that might not have been the best or most idealistic reason to become a cop] he was a darn good one.

Somehow, the OP's questions remind me of a verse from a Johnny Cash song:

He laughed and kissed his mom
And said your Billy Joe's a man
I can shoot as quick and straight as anybody can
But I wouldn't shoot without a cause
I'd gun nobody down
But she cried again as he rode away

Don't take your guns to town, Son
Leave your guns at home, Bill
Don't take your guns to town
Click to expand...
 
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