Could this also be a reason why 45 acp is so darn expensive?

[Checkman]

I like 45acp, but it's gotten just a little too rich for my blood. 9mm might not be perfect, but it is more affordable, easier too shoot and you get more rounds - irrelevant though that might be I like having lots of rounds.

Actually, in addition to the world metal market going bonkers right now, I also think part of the problem with the higher price for 45 acp is that the various militaries involved in the current hostilities are using 9mm for both smgs and handguns at a prodigious rate.

The ammo companies across the globe are running in hyperdrive to meet the demand. It's my understanding that the DOD is currently purchasing ammo from the Israelis in addition to American companies and the Russians are doing a booming business selling 7.62mm x 39 and 9mm to the various factions right now as well. Guess that makes sense because they're closer to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Anyway is it possible that the ammo factories are making more 9mm than any other type of handgun ammo right now? It's in big demand right now and why should they shut the lines down to make ammo that is more popular with the private sector when the goverment contracts pay fairly well for 9mm, 5.56 NATO, etc? And of course take priority.

So not only have metals gotten more expensive, and the gas to transport the ammo, but the factories just aren't making as much. Smaller inventory, high demand, expensive materials, equal higher prices.

My grandfather used to tell me how it was very difficult to get ammo in the 1930's during the depression and of course during WW2 it was almost impossible.

This is why I've purchased Snap Caps and have taken to dry firing three to four times more than I fire live ammo. It might not be as good, but it works for me and the snap caps pay for themselves.

Just brainstorming here. Opinions?

 

[qbpc]

Start shooting .22lr or reloading.

 

[Checkman]

That's not what I was talking about. I do shoot 22LR and prices have gone up across the board - to include primers, bullets, brass etc. Reloading 45 acp isn't the big saver that it was just last year. I'm trying to figure out why. Please be somewhat more constructive.

 

[pv74]

.45 ACP is cheap. People leave tons of brass laying in the desert or at indoor ranges (Impact guns in Boise sometimes lets me pick up all that my little heart desires)

I just take the brass that people leave, clean it up, buy the components in bulk, and put it together on my 550B. I can make 1,000 rounds of .45ACP in about 2 hours. I usually make so much of it that I ahve to put it in ammo cans, I don't bother boxing it. I don't think I pay more than $5 a box once all is said and done.

9mm is even cheaper to make...almost everyone leaves thier 9mm brass.
I can reload it..I don't know..20 times...I have not worn out a case yet.

.357 magnum, .38 special.., .easy easy to put together and cheap cheap cheap.

.45 Long Colt that folks pay $20 a box for....costs me the same as .45 acp to load

Obsolete cartridge..no problemo...form the brass and make the ammo yourself..

Large rifle calibers too expensive to shoot? ...not anymore...
I load all of them for a lot less than folks pay for factory stuff...and they shoot like a house on fire...my ammo is all custom loaded for MY guns.

When you have many hungry chambers to feed like I do, you find a way to feed them...

If you are in Boise, go visit Cliff's GSR and look into getting a Dillon press or just visit Brianenos.com. He sells Dillon equipment and his forums have loads of information. Also, visit the reloading forum on AR15.com sometime.

Finally, if you are near Boise, their is a group of shooters that meets for pizza on Thursday evenings. Stop in and pay us a visit. More info at http://boiseshooters.kicks-ass.net/

 

[qbpc]

Brass and copper has gone up over 300% in less than 2 years. Lead has also increased in price. China is buying all the metals they can get and the bad thing we are selling our resources to them. In turn it cost us so much more, do to the demand from China. It’s the supply and demand thing. Big companies do not care they are selling America down the road it's all about the money they make. I collect and sell scrap metals It is unreal the prices we are getting. Localy people are stealing wire and copper pipe from houses under construction. How would you like to come home and find out your A/C didn't work because some theif cut the copper lines and wire from your condensing unit. That is happening around here.

If you go with lead bullets your cost will go down on reloading 45 there is a company named master bullet that makes polymer coated lead. The review are good on them I have not used them personally but about to.
http://www.masterblastersbullets.com/page15.html

 

[pv74]

That's not what I was talking about. I do shoot 22LR and prices have gone up across the board - to include primers, bullets, brass etc. Reloading 45 acp isn't the big saver that it was just last year. I'm trying to figure out why. Please be somewhat more constructive.

You have to buy the components in quantity...

Going to Cabellas and picking up a bag of 100 bullets is not going to save you money.

I usually buy my rifle bullets in a group buy 5,000 at a time (stock up for a few years of shooting).

For handguns, I just shoot cast lead or plated bullets. I can get these locally for a decent price.

For powder and primers, I usually go to Sportsman's warehouse, or get in on a group buy...when you buy a lot with other folks, the hazmat fee and shipping is reduced to almost nothing.

Thier are deals to be had, even now.

 

[pv74]

Brass and copper has gone up over 300% in less than 2 years. Lead has also increased in price. China is buying all the metals they can get and the bad thing we are selling our resources to them. In turn it cost us so much more, do to the demand from China. It’s the supply and demand thing. Big companies do not care they are selling America down the road it's all about the money they make. I collect and sell scrap metals It is unreal the prices we are getting. Localy people are stealing wire and copper pipe from houses under construction. How would you like to come home and find out your A/C didn't work because some theif cut the copper lines and wire from your condensing unit. That is happening around here.

If you go with lead bullets your cost will go down on reloading 45 there is a company named master bullet that makes polymer coated lead. The review are good on them I have not used them personally but about to.
http://www.masterblastersbullets.com/page15.html

Save your shot out brass...(berdan primed brass, cases that are split or rifle brass that has been fired too many times)...take it the scrap yard when you get a bunch...they pay primo prices for cartridge brass. NEVER throw brass away...it is too valuable...I usually get enough money to pay for several boxes of bullets whenever I do this

 

[Quiet]

.45 ACP is not expensive.

5.7x28mm is expensive.

.50AE is really expensive.

 

[Angus Podgorney]

It seems to me by your reasoning, the 9mm should have spiked in price. Basic economics, supply & demand.

 

[Boats]

What is amusing to me is the SD ammo situation.

I have both 9mms and .45ACPs in various locations around my house that are relied upon for SD, so I use factory SD ammo. In premium loadings, the ACP has almost twice the mass as the 9mm loadings, indicating their potential increased materials costs. However, the ACP has never been twice the price of 124 grain 9mm SD hollow points from the premium makers.

In that situation, it is 9mm that is overpriced and it has been for years.

 

[10-Ring]

45 acp Expensive? 338 lapua...that's pricey

 

[Checkman]

I save the 45 brass and my dad reloads it. I help buy the primers, powder etc. It does help. No denying.

I've just noticed that when it comes to handgun calibers 45, 357 magnum and even 38 special has gone up in price lately. And while 9mm is also more expensive it's still a better deal.

As far as rifle ammo - forget about it. I almost never take my rifles out anymore - except for my 22's. I have alot of shotgun ammo (12 ga) stocked up so I shoot my 870 more often.

Anyway thanks for the answers. I've been speculating. Reminds me of the seventies - or what I've been told about it by my dad. He says that a similar thing happened during that decade. For years cheap surplus ammo had been easy to get hold of but by the second half of the seventies ammo was more expensive and about the only thing you could get hold of was the stuff made by Remington, Winchester, Federal etc.

I remember he and I shot alot of 22LR and 38 special full wadcutters - which he got from his department.

It was a real treat being able to shoot .357 magnum and 45ACP loads. Typically we would shoot a couple cylinders or a magazine or two and then we would switch to the wadcutters and put the 1911and Commander away.

The last several years it's been great being able to expend magnum loads and 45 rounds routinely, but good times are always followed by lean times aren't they.

Oh well so it goes.

 

[Dravur]

Wow, where to start....

Ok, the weight of a .45 acp round is roughly twice the weight of a 9mm, why isn't 9mm half the price of .45........

Because magical fairies don't make ammo using wands and magic dust. There are shipping and production costs for each round. The brass has to be formed <roughly same cost per round for .45 vs 9mm> The bullets have to be formed, swaged, etc, roughly the same cost. etc. The marketing costs are roughly the same. See the pattern developing? The cost of shipping may be a little higher for .45 but not double. There are numerous sunk costs involved. You still have to pay a driver, whether delivering .45 vs 9mm. etc.

And there is another cost factor....demand. If I can set up my tooling and produce 9mm and sell 1 million rounds for x dollars and make x profit and will pretty much sell out my stock, and if I use the same tooling set up for .45 and make less per unit or cannot sell my entire stock and make the same or more coin, then I make 9mm.

If Wal-mart wants 9mm and is having a sale, I will happily set up a HUGE production run of 9mm to supply Wal-Mart and let .45 production slide.

Its all economics. It all is.

 

[P. Plainsman]

Checkman, I know what you mean.

The Great Ammo Price Hike of 2006 didn't hit 9mm as hard as most other calibers. I find 9mm is now consistently the cheapest centerfire chambering for FMJ/plinking ammo at the sporting goods and gun stores I frequent.

Since I don't own a .45 ACP anymore, it's the .44 calibers where I really feel the pinch. My S&W 629 is a wonderful sixgun but I just can't afford to blow through a box of .44 Special every range outing. Even .38 Special has crept up well ahead of 9mm in price. I used to be able to get Federal Am. Eagle 130 gr FMJ in .38 Special for $8.99 lots of places. Great plinking ammo. Not anymore. Midway USA wants $14.29 for the stuff now! Yet I found 9mm American Eagle ball for $8.99 just this week. That's over a 50% price difference.

The result is that my .22 revolver and my CZ 9mm pistols get more and more range time compared to my other guns. And since I get so much good practice with the 9mms, I come to lean on them more for defense duty.

Clearly, I should take up reloading to keep my centerfire revolvers fed and happy.

 

[MarshallDodge]

Dravur, I think your wrong. If you could get the fairies in Boulder to like guns I think they would make ammo all day for you.

The best way to shoot .45 is to reload it. Using lead 200 grain bullets I can make them for 10 cents a round. You can't buy cheap 9mm from Wal-Mart for that price.

 

[atomd]

+1 for reloading.

Reloading for .45ACP, I'm at 10 cents a round tax included. I could get that even lower if I ordered in larger quantities. Retail ammo (cheapest brass I can find) is around .23 cents or so per round. That's a HUGE savings! Of course I don't buy any brass. Even if I did, it would still be a lot cheaper.

 

[Seven High]

Around here Fiocchi 9mm ammo goes for $7.99 a box plus tax. It is the only bargain out there now. This is the only caliber I am shooting presently.

 

[Checkman]

Snap Caps have gone up as well, but I still bought some. They pay for themselves and while it might not be as good as shooting live rounds it's better than nothing.

I've read that many of the old time pistoleros such as Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan and Ed McGivern did extensive dry-firing. Especially back during the Depression and WW2.

Elmer Keith reccommends it in his classic book Keith On Sixguns.

Hopefully prices will drop in the future (at least a little), but until then it's 9mm, 22LR and Snap Caps baby.