Debating morons, need help

[Double Maduro]

unarmed,

recommend a book on physics.

mec,

Out house doors don't have knobs that turn, they have pull handles.

DM

 

[Nicky Santoro]

Debating morons, need help

Don't bother. They won't understand anyway and, in the end, will defeat you by sheer experience being obtuse. I live in Nazi Jersey and am familiar with the scenario.

 

[MarkDido]

Debating morons, need help

Don't.

It's like mud wrestling with a pig.
The pig likes it
You just get dirty

 

[Taurus 66]

As someone noted, these are shot at paper targets all the time and leave nice holes in the paper. If there was all this energy surrounding the bullet the whole target would be shredded.

There is so much energy in a 50 BMG, it actually detonates with the force of a mini nuclear bomb upon impact. Case in point:



The soldier shooting the mighty 50 BMG in this photo asked us we protect his identity for reasons involving national security.

 

[SB88LX]

MY LORD!! You don't even have to hit the jetliners, you just have to hit the runway and you can take out 4!!!!!! I'm pledging my life savings to the brady campaign ASAP.

 

[XLMiguel]

The conventional wisdom on arguing with idiot/morons/imbeciles of any ilk is that they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Proper discourse requires documented citations from authoritative sources. If he put forth his position, make him defend it - ask for his substantiation (and credentials, or even experience, as a 'firearms expert') - a commercial source for Hg bullets, and forensic documentation of injuries from close encounters w/.50 cal.

Talk is cheap becasue teh supply always excceds teh demand.

 

[Byron Quick]

You tested on watermelons, just like in The Day Of The Jackal? Care to tell more about the results? Remember what kind of bullets you modified, and what kind of ammo that performed better?

The only rifle that I had access to at the time was a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington.

I was using Remington Core-Lokt Soft Point 200 grain bullets. The only reason that I remember the grain and brand is the distinctive shape of the 200 grain bullet versus the 150 grain bullet and the fact that all you can find in .35 Remington around here is Remington and Winchester.

I've hunted a lot with Core-Lokt ammunition. I've come to detest the bullet design. When you recover the bullet, the lead core is scattered here and there throughout the wound channel and the Lord only knows where you find the jacket. Core-Lokt it ain't.

I didn't get much expansion with the regular ammunition. No exploding watermelons. I got less with the mercury filled bullets.

Now it's barely possible that my jury rigged mercury bullets just didn't attain the advanced tolerance of machining necessary to make the mercury filled bullets turn into supernatural death machines. But I don't think so. I think that the basic concept is a crock.

 

[nyresq]

We also used to put pistol primers in the hollow points of keith bullets. Theywould go pop if you hit steel or concrete but otherwise-nothing. Also drilled out .22 hps and filled them with firecracker powder.

MEC, you must have had a fun childhood....

 

[Red Dragon]

Darth ruger said:

Back in my Army days, there was this guy in my platoon in Germany who insisted the covert ops guys had this special laser-guided nuclear-powered 'bunker buster' .50 bullet that would pass completely through an M1 Abrams tank and the resulting pressure "will liquify you and suck you out the hole!"

I think what your buddy was referring to was the depleted uranium rounds. Usually they are 30mm rounds fired out of jets and planes like the A-10 Warthog. There were rumors and stories passed around when I was in that said if you were in an APC or tank and it got hit with one, it would superheat the air inside the vehicle and liquify everyone inside. In my research, I have yet to find anything that would suggest that it is true. What I did find is that the main reason the military started working with depleted uranium rounds is that they are almost twice as dense as lead and when they were fired, unlike most bullets that flatten, this one peels from the nose back, essentially self-sharpening the bullet. making it a good choice for armor-buster rounds.

The physics that would allow someone to get sucked through a bullet hole would require a massive pressure imbalance. We are talkin' vaccum of space kinda thing. The main concern with DU rounds is that some of the dust residue is is believed to be long-term harmful to people and the environment. Given that it has a radioactive half-life of 1,000,000,000 years, so I guess I can understand that.

 

[cxm]

Teaching Pigs To Sing

Never try to teach a pig to sing... you will only get frustrated and upset the pig.

FWIW

Chuck

 

[willeo6709]

There are AP rounds for the 50 used in anti ordnance roles in various branches of the military. However, conventional rounds in a conventional M2 heavy machine gun I highly doubt would do any permanent damage by a near miss. However, machine gun belt ammo is not meant to be nail driver accurate. The round right behind it has a damn good chance of doing you in. You never want to be downrange of a beltfed......

 

[brickeyee]

"For those unaware,you cannot compress water,one cubic inch will always be,in its liquid state,one cubic inch regardless of the amount of pressure it's under."

For those 'in the know', if you raise the pressure high enough even water can be compressed.
If you really want to work at it, you can compress plutonium. See 'Fatman'.

 

[Gordon Fink]

I would think that the muzzle blast and recoil from such a powerful weapon would also injure the shooter.…

~G. Fink

 

[The Viking]

Thanks for the advice, yeah, I know, never argue with idiots. Thing is, this was so blatantly stupid I just had to call BS on it. As stated previously, a bunch of other people joined in the fray . Someone suggested that the poster is an older member, known for having his feet firmly planted on the ground.(Not the ground of this planet though ) Anyway, he left the debate. Witouth ever stating his credentials. (Strange huh? )
Apparently, he thought we were stupid too, or thought people would simply accept anything sounding official as the absolute truth without bothering to read, since the links he posted proved what we said That, or he has some serious problem with reading comprehension.

 

[griz]

[strike]Taurus, how does the back of his head effect national security?[/strike]

When I tightened up the tinfoil liner in my hat I figured it out, the Army is breeding soldiers with eyes in the back of their heads. Opps, was I allowed to say that in public?

(nice pic BTW, I knew those things were dangerous )

 

[Beren]

Only one way to handle idiots:

Dr. Evil: "Alright, Zip It."
Scott: "But da-"
Dr. Evil: "ZIP IT"
Scott: "Bu-"
Dr. Evil: "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, exZIPIT A"
Scott: "B-"
Dr. Evil: "Oh look, I'm Zipit Longstockings"
Scott: "B-"
Dr. Evil: "When a problem comes around, you must Zip It, (Whip crack), Zip
It good"
Scott: "But dad-"
Dr. Evil: "(Speaking in Japanese), Subtitle: Zip It"

 

[HankB]

Mercury has been used in experimental bullets - around 30 years ago, I remember seeing *component bullets* available to handloaders at a local gun shop outside the Chicago area - they were packaged in little baggies with a cardboard tag that read, IIRC, that they were "Mer-Core" components. They looked like conventional bullet jackets that had (presumably) been filled with mercury and had the nose sealed with some black gunk.

I strongly suspect they were the work of somebody local, and since spreading metallic mercury around is frowned upon, they disappeared from the market pretty fast. (I'd be surprised if their brief distribution went beyond that one gun shop.)

As far as the deadliness of near-misses from the .50 BMG round is concerned, that's already been answered by the folks who've pointed out that it doesn't shred paper on the target range, so there's really not much of a shock wave to worry about.

On a lighter note, if the website is still up, you might try looking at Birdman Weapon Systems and his Nuke 50 BMG video. (Poor Boris . . . )

 

[Byron Quick]

Meanwhile, like all radioactive isotopes, it decays. U-238 decays very slowly, its half-life being the same as the age of the earth (4500 million years). This means that it is barely radioactive, less so than many other isotopes in rocks and sand. http://www.uic.com.au/uran.htm

Given that it has a radioactive half-life of 1,000,000,000 years, so I guess I can understand that.

Longer half-lives for most radioactive isotopes means that they are putting out less radiation per unit of time not more.

Much of the talk of half-lives in the millions upon billions of years comes from the the anti-nuclear power folks. Trying to scare everyone who doesn't bother to read up on radiation.

The background radiation contained in the rocks of most places is greater than that of depleted uranium. As far as depleted uranium dust goes, I'd be more concerned about possible toxicity on the chemical side of things.

 

[Animal]

I am an 0331 (machinegunner) Yes, that is an old Marine urban rumor (there's alot) again, the paper target explanation is the best, as I have qualified on the M2 on paper targets and there was nothing so spectacular.

BTW that is not a soldier in the picture, it's a Marine. Sorry to be anal but...well I just am....
Some snipers are a bit leery about pics of them getting loose on the net.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

Don't ever try to disprove such arguments and assertions. That is a losing proposition. Instead make it clear that it is the proponent's responsibility to prove their arguments and assertions beyond doubt. Keep bringing up questions that need to be answered, don't make assertions of your own.

 

[MechAg94]

Water is slightly compressible, but not very much, so it is usually assumed as incompressible to make the calcs easier. It is a good rule of thumb but not 100% correct.

 

[James T Thomas]

"doubtfull disputations"

From an old but reliable book of wisdom about many things in human life:
"Though thou shouldest bray (Elizabethan Eng. for grind to a powder) a
fool in a mortar amoung wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him." The author comes with the highest credentials, and his book of advise for practial everyday living covers all aspects of life.
I have never found it to be wrong.

 

[dangerclose]

Wrong Mercury

The explosive rounds used in the Day of the Jackal were filled with mercury fulminate (an explosive) not metallic mercury, presumably to make up for their subsonic velocity that was necessary to make the silencer on the rifle practical. As an aside, I think some English airgun manufacturer made a replica of the crutch gun in a fitted case that used Brocock air cartridges.

 

[artherd]

So, therefor, I need the results witnessed by The Highroaders. I realize none of you are stupid, therefor the mercury filled bullet is likely untested, but I know several of you guys and gals have .50's. So come on, can you give me results from shooting .50 BMG on various targets?

I can do much better than that. I have been shot 'at' by .50BMG rounds. All that happens is you hear a VERY loud supersonic crack as the bullet goes by. It is much louder than say a .308's supersonic crack.

 

[shermacman]

Artherd,
yeah, I got caught in a similar situation by the girl's boyfriend too. I wonder if it was the same girl?!