defending against multiple teens

[meef]

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
-Edmund Burke

Mandirigma:

I can't speak for anyone but myself. But somethings, are just worth it.

Yes we are a varied bunch. I know some would jump to help. I know others that wouldn't because they won't allow the repercussions to affect them, their livelihoods, nor thier ability to provide for thier loved ones.

Some things are worth it. But as I am not likely to have the all-knowing wisdom about every situation I come in contact with, I have determined to try to pick my involvement (if any) when given the opportunity.

I fervently pray that I may live out the rest of my life never having to use lethal force.

But if my life, or the lives of my kin (blood or otherwise) are threatened, I will do whatever I can do or need to do to stop the threat.

The OP walked in on an altercation that involved a neighbor and details about which he was completely ignorant. He stated he prepared to draw his gun and appeared willing to use it. That's my understanding, at least.

Everybody makes their own choices, and regardless of the multiple, inane hypothetical threads that spring up around here titled under various "What would you do if......" headings - not many people can state with certainty what they would do in most situations.

I'm not the world's policeman or the protector of everyone I come in contact with. I'm just me trying to get by doing as little harm as possible.

Anyone who shoots another person will have their life change in ways that can't be described here. The legal, moral, financial, etc., aspects go far beyond written description or imagination.

We make our choices and we live with the results.

 

[Kevin108]

Why does everybody suggest moving? To me that's a last resort. Get involved with the Civic League. In at-risk neighborhoods they usually have their own police contact. Start a neighborhood watch. Take your neighborhood back!

At least that's what I'd do. Other people share the same sentiment as you. They want the neighborhood to be a safe, quiet place. Just not everybody is a leader or willing to take the initiative to get the ball rolling.

In the mean time don't keep anything valuable in your car and getting a locking gas cap. These kids may not retaliate but if they do, they'll be sneaky about it. If you don't have full coverage auto insurance and renter's insurance it would be a good time to look into both. If you have outside lights, make sure the bulbs aren't burned out.

 

[Zoogster]

Be alert they may retaliate. They also know you carry and know where on your body you are carrying. If they attack you likely wont see it coming. Hammer to the back of the head, skateboard, rock crowbar whatever. You may find yourself tackled out of nowhere and someone going directly for your firearm which they know is there and where it is.

 

[gezzer]

Time to MOVE

 

[jeepmor]

but Brian grabbed a skateboard and let him have it behind his neck

Go Brian, go Brian, go Brian. Someone owes this kid an ice cream or something. He's a damn good brother and I hope his sister knows it.

Why do so many of you say "time to move." Why is running the answer for so many of you? Stand up, take the neighborhood back, start a citizen's watch, find yourself some kids who you can rely upon for good information. Unless it's the projects, then make an exit plan post haste.

This dope dealer needs to be run off. Not so much for selling dope, but his actions provoking violence and preying on underaged girls. You stated he was 20, using drugs to get his victims to succumb to his will could likely be considered date rape. And him preying on underaged girls, in particular, would likely not bode well with some DA should a girl decide to bring up charges. That's about 20+ in prison, that should give him plenty of time to think about his actions, and at 20 y/o. He'll make somebody a nice bi*** in prison. I'm actually surprised to hear of a pot dealer being violent. Is this kid into meth also?

 

[JWarren]

Why do so many of you say "time to move." Why is running the answer for so many of you?

Jeep,

It's a fair question. Since I was one that said Two Men and a Truck sounds pretty good about now, I'll do my best to respond.


Typically running is never the answer for me. I have a tendency to meet anything I percieve as a threat head-on and aggressively. For me, that is the exact reason why I suggested moving. For me, I could foresee the escalation and likely legal trouble I'd be getting into. I constantly use intelligence to restrain my more baser instincts-- but that is because I recognize that I can have a short fuse.


Now that isn't really the only reason I would suggest it.


While the OP did not explicitly state it, there was sort of an assumption that he is a renter or leaser due to the home being a duplex. This means he likely has no real investment in the community. He may not see this as where he wants to settle in. This may not be the neighborhood where he wants to invest substantial monies into a home.


Obviously, I am not there. There is a lot of things I have to use my imagination on and make serious assumptions. However, I've lived in a lot of neighborhoods in a good number of cities in the US through my college and career paths. Based upon my own experiences, I start building an idea of the neighborhood-- based on some I've lived in.


Gangs moving in. Drug dealers. This sounds like it could be a neighborhood on the decline. If the OP is a leaser or renter, he has options.

From an investment perspective, I would be very reluctant to purchase a home in a declining neighborhood. On of the great fallacies of the housing market is the belief that a person's home always increases in value. Wrong! Last year-- before the housing bubble concerns-- there were 15 major markets in the US where home values saw greater than a 10% decline in market value in a one year period. A house CAN lose money. This is always either a function of a tremendously over-priced market in an area or a declining neighborhood. Using a term we use a lot in the investment community, investing in a declining neighborhood without serious renewal efforts already going on is a lot like "Trying to catch a falling dagger."

So financially, there is a concern for living there.


Now, if he has kids.

Aside from wondering what ills the child may face on the streets (and that one is HUGE with a drug dealer trying to get girls high for sex!), the school districts of areas depend greatly on their tax base for education. This comes often from property tax and sales taxes. In a declining neighborhood, the tax base is getting smaller. Usually, the quality of education is one of the first things that goes. I lived in a neighborhood in Orlando once where a house on one side of the street was literally 50% more expensive than the one across the street from it-- both essentially in the same neighborhood, and both essentially the same. The difference in cost was because the more expensive home was in the Seminole County School District and the other one was in the Apopka County School District.

Where you choose to live is often an investment in your child's future as well.


Finally, if the OP is a renter/leaser, it is likely that many of his neighbors are also in rental houses. My experience is that people that do not have a monitary investment in a community are difficult to keep energized and activated in the reclaimation process. There simply isn't enough vested interest there. This is no fault to the persons-- it is just a different situation.


Granted, I am making a lot of assumptions and requiring myself to use what I imagine the situation to be in this post. I'm not there, and I don't know in any certainty what the situation.

But were it me, I see a lot of reasons why I would consider investing myself in another neighborhood.


One final thought from another thread....

NO ONE can live in condition yellow every second of the day. If the OP has made himself a target, it is likely there will be a point where he or one of his family slips up.

For me, there is way too much downside and not enough up-side in this.

Without having sunk my roots, I may look for better soil.


-- John

 

[gunsmith]

I ran off the local drug dealers

it was easy, I called and reported the dealing, called about the loud hip hop, complained to the landlord.
every little thing I could find.

after a month or three of legal type harassment THEY moved!

I figured the more time cops are chasing wannabees becoming convicts, the less time they have for giving me speeding tickets.

Take pictures and take notes ...be proactive, they can't stand it.

pack heat 24/7

 

[lanternlad1]

Also, sometimes lethal force is not always needed. I once used a hose to spray down some kids that were bored and trying to knock down a stop sign in my yard, when they didn't listen to my verbal warnings. (yes, I was packing, just in case) It worked well. They slunk away dripping to do their mischief elsewhere, calling me "crazy". But they left, and no damage was done.

But none of them pulled a screwdriver, either. If it were me, I probably would have shot. But you never know what you will do until you are actually in that situation.

Boys that age are looking for an Alpha Male to follow. In this era of single mothers doing their best, many boys don't have a role model to look up to.
Humans are pack animals, like dogs. If you are not the pack leader, you are a follower. And if there is no pack leader, the pack goes wild. So be a pack leader, and the rest will follow.

 

[fireflyfather]

Screwdriver is a lethal weapon. Period. The neighbor's kid was within 21 feet. As I read the OP, the skateboard was picked up AFTER the screwdriver was. Even without the screwdriver, the numbers involved qualify for a MOB. If more of them had moved forward, this is a mob beating on the man's own front porch, and every one of them within striking distance of the OP himself. What, did the guy have to have a chainsaw or a HUNDRED teenagers? How would this be a bad shoot? There was NO NEED for the perp to pick up a screwdriver. There was no danger that the neighbor's kid was going to do him in with a dozen of his buddies waiting to jump in (as it looked like they were about to anyway). The only reason they didn't was the presence of the OP and a firearm. So, how is this brandishing? He probably saved this kid's life. If he had to shoot a drug dealer who doped up barely-teenage girls for sex to do it, how is that a loss to society, and how is it a bad shoot? Protecting known friend of family from known criminal with lethal weapon in hand is a bad shoot?

Please.

(I know all about DAs, public opinion, etc. I'm talking about the letter of the law and perception of street cops).

 

[jahwarrior]

i wanted to update the situation. so far, there's been no noise coming from the POS dealer or his crew. the police have been patrolling regularly up and down his block. his car hasn't even been in front of his house these past few days (i have to walk past every day on my way to and from work). looks like no one's manning the lighthouse, so to speak.

moving is NOT a viable option for me. my living situation makes it difficult for me to afford to move to most places in town, and i need to live near to my job for the time being. besides, the size of this town makes moving ineffectual. if i don't run into this kid near my house, i'll just run into him somewhere else. besides, i lived in one of the worst neighborhoods in NYC for 22 years. there was a murder every week, robberies and violent crimes every day, and drugs drugs drugs. the community did nnothing, so the police did nothing. i grew up there, and i know how to survive in such an environment. i moved here because i simply got tired of it. i'm not about to be chased away from here because of some "hip gangsta" wannabe punk kid. 35 years old is too old too start over, again. so, my only options are to hope the cops finally can get him on something, or to stay alert for awhile, and wait him out. i appreciate everyone's concern, and responses/solutions to my situation.

 

[David904]

There is no such thing as "baby" gangs. They may not have much of a presence over the whole of the city yet, but they are dangerous nonetheless. I know you know this. Hell, 15 bangers in your yard is going to scare the heck out of any right thinking person.

I'm sorry to hear that you can't move. That would be the optimal solution. However, as you cannot leave; vigilance is the order of the day. Also, install floodlights with motion detectors etc. if at all possible.

Having the police around is great. However that won't last as long as the gangs memory of this incident. Remember... You have to be right all the time, where all they have to be is lucky or right just once.

They will come back after you. Bank on it. Be ready and be careful. Keep in contact with the police as much as possible. keep a camera handy. CYA and do what you have to do to protect your family. Also, consider talking to a defense attorney and getting his input. Perhaps he or she will have an insight this armchair quarterback doesn't. Good luck.