Defensive shotgun thoughts

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357wheelgunner

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Some thoughts on defensive shotguns…

This hurricane situation has me thinking. This picture started it…

I think that shotguns are the best civilian defensive guns available. They are versatile in that you can load with #4 shot in the house, 00 buck in the yard, and slugs up to 100 yards! How many civilian self-defense situations require more than a 100 yard shot? If a bad guy is 100 yards away, you can run (unless he has a rifle and is good with it- how often does that happen?)

Another thing I like is I don’t need to worry about high capacity magazines draining my bank account. Practice is fun and cheap with birdshot, and S&B buck or slugs are not too expensive. The pump action shotgun is also extremely reliable.

I am confident that I can solve any solvable shooting situation I will ever face with 7 rounds of buckshot or slugs, and a good shotgun.

I recently bought a Remington 870 Express Security, and I really like it. It is surprisingly easy to hit things up to 50 yards away, with S&B buck shot and a bead. I am trading my crappy (although surprisingly accurate) SAR-1, and getting a Remington 870 Police (with Wilson sights). This will be my SHTF gun, home defense gun, fun in the woods killing critters gun, etc. etc.
 
I would keep the SAR-1 for when there's more than five opponents, and trade the Express Security for the Police Magnum. I had an 870 Express HD and a SAR-1 at the same time, and they had different roles. The 870 was backup to the AK outdoors, and primary indoors.
 
DITTO the recommendation to keep the SAR 1!!!!!!!

Mags expensive? I saw some East G mags for $10 a pop not too long ago at a gun show.

Also, WHILE I 've got three 870s and an old 1100, I am not of the cult of the "dress up a shotgun". Other than getting a short (18 inch barrel), the rest of the goodies are just gizmos, and likely to alter the all important balance of the gun.

I've noticed on MANY gun sites, that folks are LIKELY to opine based on their CURRENT range scenario. I'll bet that you are currently living in a short range scenario. As am I, but the last place I lived has some SERIOUS reach out and touch options. And I may move again.


Please, KEEP your SAR 1! It is the mostest for the leastest.
 
Ok.
If you are looking for approval, you got mine.
There is very little to find fault with, with a shotgun.
I think it solves all the needs of a home defense gun with honors.
IMO there is nothing that is it's equal.
I have only seen one person survive being shot with a shotgun and that was birdshot at pretty long range. That is saying a lot in my book. I can't say the same for rifles or handguns.
I have a pretty decent collection of battle rifles, "assult rifles", and handguns. But beside my bed sits a Remington 870 with a Surefire light. Obviously, it is my choice. I ain't selling anything else, but it is my choice for the first line of defense. Actually second since my cute little Rottweiler is first in line.
 
i found out yesterday that i'm quicker and more accurate with my mossie slide action than with my scoped rifle.... out to 50 yards... then out to 100 yards. iron sights, rifled barrel, goodbye target posts.
 
Within the working range of a shotgun of about 40 yards or less, A shotgun loaded with buckshot offers many advantages to other weapons.

The spread of Buckshot increases the probability of a hit to a vital area during a SHTF situation.

Every pellet of buckshot is deadly. Even No 4 buck will penetrate about 7 inches.

Concerning penetration; No 1 will penetrate at least 12 inches, Single Ought will penetrate 16 inches (through and through a human torso in all probability) and Double and Triple ought will go through and through a human torso.

Buckshot and slugs also have a much greater cross sectional wound area than other types of rounds.

A .45 caliber will create a hole that has a cross section of 0.16 square inches,

A 1 OZ slug will create a hole that has a cross section of 0.41 square inches,

8 pellets of triple ought have a cross section of 0.81 sq inches,

9 pellets of double ought have a cross section of 0.77 sq inches,

12 pellets of single ought have a cross section of 0.96 sq inches,

16 pellets of #1 buck have a cross section of 1.13 sq inches,

27 pellets of #4 buck have a cross section of 1.22 sq inches.

At close range; the large cumulative cross sectional area of multiple pellets of buckshot combined with the good penetration of buckshot creates a massive total wound volume well in excess of the wounding ability of just about any practical handheld weapon in existence.

Put simply, a 12-gauge shotgun is deadly because it throws a lot of lead and makes a lot of holes.
 
Put even more simply, a shotgun causes lots of energy transfer in the target, thus expediting threat neutralization.

Shotguns are a cost effective defensive tool of great effect when used within their best range and by trained operators.
 
Another advantage is multiple platforms. Having been startled on the opposite end of the house from my 870, the very reasonable price for a second or third SG looks really nice.
 
Al brings up GOOD points!

- Redundency in platforms, allows one to become with said platform. Allows for backups - for having in multiple places , if ones needs repair, or what if one is being used for hunting - the family should have the right to defend as well.

A fella just bought 4 more 870 Express - Academy has too good of a deal to pass up right now.

His shotguns are Bone Stock - Except half have lights on them . He doesn't hunt game or shoot clays with the ones with lights [ he has shot skeet with them to see how they handle , and hold up] .

He was going to only buy three ...His wife wanted one for the Guest Bedroom . :D

Kinda floored him at first , the wife "suggesting " buy another / one more shotgun.

Makes sense to me :D

I told her to write in to some Home Decorating Magazine, and show the great job she did re- decorating the Guest Room - and to be sure to include the "decorating tip" ....the "Guest Shotgun". Complete for reasons why, the guns specs, how to choose one, how to store it, ammo choices....we all had a great laugh just thinking how well this would go over. :D

" Notice how the wood stock compliments the custom moulding..."

" See how the little throw pillows have shotgun shells in the design and matches the red in the comforter...."

" The Surefire matches the cordless phone..."

Yeah - go ahead and laugh, but when the wifey wants to re -decorate you knuckleheads can figure an additional $200 for a shotgun.

"Misc - Wood and Metal ".....;)
 
A shotgun is a formidable tool. But given the choice I would take a 223 semi auto any day over the best shotguns out there. I have a nice 14 inch Vang Comped 870. But I don't use it any more except as a slug gun when in bear country. When I go to go calls my Colt M4 is what I grab.

The shot gun is versatile in some ways very limited in others. It can handle less lethal loads, bird, buck and slugs. But in a gun fight its more limited. Its good for about 0 to 25 yards with buck. Its good to about 50 yards in an average person hands with slugs. To about 100 with slugs in a good shooters hands. It has low ammunition capacity and lots of recoil. It requires a more complicated manual of arms than a semi auto rifle. You have different kinds of ammunition to keep track of. You have to learn how to select a slug, chamber port load and tactical load.

With the Semi auto rifle its pretty much like your pistol. Put in a mag run the action and start shooting.
Pat
 
Shotguns are a cost effective defensive tool of great effect when used within their best range and by trained operators.
Click to expand...

Dave - Well said ! I agree.

Especially in the context of the original post of this thread.

We get tornados here. I have been in my share, I have seen the damage bestowed upon others. I have been in flood and we have had folks displaced by floods.

Shotguns are good for the critters that infest aftermath as well. Now my personal Defense SG - I load with slugs only . I have kept an eye open and played sentry. The other folks used the pellet loading to kill the snakes. I went out and with my slugs put down a cow, horse, mule that otherwise was suffering.

Looters are one consideration, there are other situations to consider as well.

I like the 1911 style. Not everyone is accutomed to using one.

In some situations civilians face or might face- a simple manual of arms and not dependent on magazines or ammo sensitivity is good. Shotguns and revolvers fill this need very well. IN a civilian crisis , one may lose thier guns and ammo, they may borrow or have loaned to them a firearm. Ammo choices might be slim. Simple SG and Revolvers are great to have an extra of in case a need to loan one arises. BTDT - more than once.
 
Once again, a gentle reminder that the emphasis here is on DEFENSIVE applications. Relative short range limitations generally are not an issue when someone brings trouble to you. It's going to be pretty difficult for someone to loot your premises if they never get closer than 100 yards. And how likely is it that you are going to be engaged by a fire team at that distance anyway?

Shotguns EXCEL at defensive applications, pure and simple. Other tools should definitely be in the toolbox, for other applications. But shotguns are inexpensive to obtain, relatively easy to learn to use, relatively foolproof when properly selected and maintained, far less likely to provoke 'owl eyes' from witnesses or hoplophobic local officials and most effective as fight stoppers- frequently without the operator having to fire a round.

If you're the cavalry being called out when the hostiles are in full cry, you might well want something different than a lowly riot gun. Especially if the department is buying your hardware for you, or providing you the letterhead that lets you buy those nifty toys that the great unwashed can't manage without far, far more paperwork, expense and hassle. But for John Q. Public, an ordinary 18 or 20" barreled pumpgun is an excellent defensive tool, and one that won't break the family budget as well.

lpl/nc
 
I agree with 355sigfan. The main problems with shotguns are limited mag capacity and heavy recoil.
 
I am currently living in a close range scenario, so the shotgun is a no brainer.

On a given night, I have a bone 870 "up" for two out of three nights, I'll have a Bushy or a SAR -1 "up" on night three.

I think that you need to stay flexible and familiar with both types.

The self shucker has low cartridge capacity, even with extended mags, and if the other guy has the cojones, he can get inside your ooda while you are stroking the trombone.

Or he can hold off at 150 with a 30/30, smoke you, then move in to get your stamp collection.

Keep working different scenarios and don't just imagine the easiest.
 
the idea of needing a defensive weapon for use against a target beyond about 25 yards makes my suburban mind wonder - why am i shooting at someone in my neighbor's house? surely the neighbor could handle them? ;)
 
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