woad_yurt
Member
Thank you. Most of my time in the military was spent hurrying up and waiting.
Designed to be carried Cocked and Locked: Not!
- Thread starter Slamfire
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Thank you. Most of my time in the military was spent hurrying up and waiting.
MythBuster
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There is NOTHING "unsafe" about carrying the 1911 in condition 2.
If you are an idiot the act of decocking it may not be safe but once the pistol is decocked it is safe.
If you are an idiot the act of decocking it may not be safe but once the pistol is decocked it is safe.
MythBuster
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There is nothing wrong with condition one. Never said it was.
There is also nothing wrong with condition two.
They are both good options for carrying the 1911.
There is also nothing wrong with condition two.
They are both good options for carrying the 1911.
High modern beavertails block access to the hammer. I have been playing with mine. That high curled beavertail makes cocking and de cocking a two hand affair.
If you are going to carry condition two, the older grip safety and wide hammer is a better way to go.
If you are going to carry condition two, the older grip safety and wide hammer is a better way to go.
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gordy
Member
well the army never sead the 1911 as a offence weapon. it is a last ditch weapon. thats why they give you a rifle. empty chamber, full mag. is how the 1911 was by army rules to be carried.
you never see a man with a mag in his weapon any time but in combat.
even then they are not allowed to have them loaded. remember when a car drove up to the gates and no one had any ammo. the military thinks that every one is dumb when it comes to loaded guns. army training.
C&L is something that a man by the name Jeff Cooper has given us. it is fast but by no means safe, anything can go wrong, I have a colt and it has been with me lots. I like c&l for games. a loaded chamber, half cocked when playing for real.
you never see a man with a mag in his weapon any time but in combat.
even then they are not allowed to have them loaded. remember when a car drove up to the gates and no one had any ammo. the military thinks that every one is dumb when it comes to loaded guns. army training.
C&L is something that a man by the name Jeff Cooper has given us. it is fast but by no means safe, anything can go wrong, I have a colt and it has been with me lots. I like c&l for games. a loaded chamber, half cocked when playing for real.
Zerodefect
member
Shoot I've accidentally carried con0 plenty of times. Cocked and unlocked (something bumped my safety). I'm still here with all my toes. Y'all way overthinking this.
Keep in mind they offer holsters with thumb breaks that block the hammer if your REALLY paranoid about C&L.
Keep in mind they offer holsters with thumb breaks that block the hammer if your REALLY paranoid about C&L.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Half-cocked is the most dangerous way there is to carry a loaded 1911.
It is ball-peen hammer safe when loaded with the hammer down against the slide.
It is nearly bullet-proof safe loaded Cocked & Locked.
But when the hammer is setting in the intercept notch (NOT a safety notch, as folks are prone to call it) it is an ND waiting to happen if the gun is dropped on the hammer and a sear or sear pin breaks.
Unlike hammer down, the hammer can gain enough energy falling from the intercept notch to overcome the inertia firing pin and drive it into a primer.
Unlike C&L, the hammer spur is not protected from impact by the grip safety tang, or locked in place/slowed by the thumb safety.
rc
Gordy: When the M1911 was adopted, it was an offensive weapon for the cavalry.
The Horse cavalry either did a pistol charge or a saber charge from horseback.
The M1911 predates the adoption of the M1913 Patton saber by two years.
They really trained to skewer people with swords.
The issues and concerns of that era are no longer a living memory.
This "state of the art" contraption came after the M1911
MythBuster
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"Half-cocked is the most dangerous way there is to carry a loaded 1911."
That is 100% correct.
That is 100% correct.
Guillermo
member
Please don't tell me that ANYONE carries 1/2 cocked. That is an unintended discharge WAITING to happen.
*shutter*
I don't see why cocked and locked represents more danger. I still haven't gotten my own 1911, but with my experience with other guns: if you drop something hard enough to make the hammer break through both the manual thumb safety and the grip safety of a 1911, then you probably don't want to drop a chambered gun of any other kind that hard either.
MythBuster
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You can drop a 1911 in condition two on the hammer all day long and it will not fire.
Most of the time when I carry a 1911 it is cocked and locked. Still there are times it is in condition two and there is nothing wrong with that.
Most of the time when I carry a 1911 it is cocked and locked. Still there are times it is in condition two and there is nothing wrong with that.
gordy
Member
You can drop a half cocked with a loaded chamber also. if the grip safety is not pressed it will not go boom
MythBuster
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"You can drop a half cocked with a loaded chamber also. if the grip safety is not pressed it will not go boom"
BS. If you drop it on the hammer hard enough it WILL break the sear and it WILL fire.
That is why no one who understands the 1911 design would even think about carrying it like that.
BS. If you drop it on the hammer hard enough it WILL break the sear and it WILL fire.
That is why no one who understands the 1911 design would even think about carrying it like that.
Guillermo
member
the 1/2 cock was an Army afterthought that they requested be incorporated into the final product. It is not safe
MythBuster
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If you drop a 1911 on the hammer on half cock even if it does not have an AD it can damage the sear leaving the gun useless until you replace the sear.
Carrying on half cock is stupid and DANGEROUS.
Carrying on half cock is stupid and DANGEROUS.
MythBuster
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"the 1/2 cock was an Army afterthought that they requested be incorporated into the final product. It is not safe"
The half cock notch is designed to stop the fall of the hammer in condition one if the sear fails.
It is also designed to stop an AD if your thumb slips off the hammer when you are cocking it from condition two.
It also prevents an AD if the gun is carried in condition two and something catches on the hammer and pulls it back and releases it.
Also it makes decocking the pistol safe IF you know how to use it when decocking.
The half cock notch is designed to stop the fall of the hammer in condition one if the sear fails.
It is also designed to stop an AD if your thumb slips off the hammer when you are cocking it from condition two.
It also prevents an AD if the gun is carried in condition two and something catches on the hammer and pulls it back and releases it.
Also it makes decocking the pistol safe IF you know how to use it when decocking.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
And dropping one on the hammer at full cock won't damage the sear...not to mention the hammer hooks...and leave the gun useless?
Sounds like ya'll figure on a whole lotta droppin' goin' on...
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Sure about that? 101% absolutely, positively sure that's all it's there for?
Then riddle me this:
If that's its only "intended" function...why a full captive notch? Why one that prevents releasing the hammer when the trigger is pulled? Why not just a square shelf, like the Series 80 Colt hammer has? That would serve the same purpose as all the above, and it would greatly simplify the hammer makin' department's job. One less machining step means hammers that cost less and take less time to make.
Contracts are easier to deliver on time and within budget.
Think about it, now. When the hammer is on half-cock...not only are the trigger and sear blocked...but the hammer itself is positively locked in place until it's deliberately freed. With Cocked and Locked...only the sear and trigger are blocked, and only then if the grip safety is engaged. On half-cock, three parts of the fire control group are disabled, regardless of the manual safety positions.
I'm just sayin'...
SharpsDressedMan
member
#265 is wrong (Sorry if I offend you). I investigated a dropped 1911 that dropped from waist high, half-cocked, and it struck muzzle down, jarring the hammer from the half cock notch, and discharged. Go ahead and carry that way if you feel like it, but don't assume your results will be different than what I'm warning about here. I wouldn't trust carrying half cocked to luck after what I investigated.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Not doubtin' your experience...but I tend to think the gun dropper mighta padded his story a little. The physics and the mechaniical features of the gun say that can't happen.
A captive half-cock notch grabs a good bit of the sear nose. In order for it to jar off half cock, it would have to hit the ground muzzle UP...not down...and the hammer would have to not only move about an eighth inch backward against a strong mainspring...the sear would also have to move away from the hammer against a spring that's designed to keep it from doing that. Striking muzzle down, the hammer's momentum would drive the sear into the notch...not away from it, and the sear would have to move well away from the hammer and fail to reset, or it would just fall back into the notch. The trigger couldn't bump the disconnect and roll the sear away from the hammer because its forward momentum would drive it away from the disconnect...not toward it.
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