Did Rudy Sell Out to the NRA? The Politics of Gun Control

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camacho

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Hey folks, there is an interesting discussion in one of the WP forums:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-sr...44fForum:1d815998-efbb-465a-8a40-74441676780f

Bellow is the heading of this specific topic, and it is rather evident where this thing is going. Your participation is encouraged since we need a louder voice especially when statements that our gun policies are very wrong headed are made. Caveat: registration requires just an email address, gender, type of profession, and zip code.


So it seems you can't get nominated in the Republican Party unless you pander to the NRA. Rudy Giuliani, whose past support for gun control was admirable, went before the NRA on Friday and declared: "There are a lot of things you and I have in common." For good accounts, see Chris Cillizza's The Fix and Alec McGillis' story in Saturday's Post. But given Giuliani's past positions, that would require the NRA to ignore a lot of things. What is Rudy doing? Will he sell all his old pro-gun control positions down the river? Is he just fudging a little to pick up a share of votes on the right? Our gun policies are -- I'm being charitable -- very wrong-headed, thanks in large part to the gun lobby. Check out the report released this week by the International Association of Chiefs of Police. (It's a PDF File.) As the report notes: In the US, there are 90 guns for every 100 citizens; in the rest of the world, the rate is 10 firearms for every 100 citizens. The report also notes that the U.S. firearm homicide rate for children is "16 times that of other developed countries." Join a discussion on what should we do about this, and about what is Rudy up to. And please also feel free to get into a lively ongoing discussion on What's the Matter With the Senate?
 
I'll fix that little typing mistake made by the WaPo.

Washington Post said:
So it seems you can't get nominated in the Republican Party unless you support the Constitutional rights of the American citizens.

There you go WaPo.
 
He did not sell out, and the members of the audience did not buy what he had. He admitted many differences of opinion. He never said that gun control is a bad thing. He kept mentioning the Parker case adding clarity to his views, but he still believes in gun control. His reception was cool if not cold. He had to get the call from his ‘wife’ because things were not going well.

- Sig
 
Lone Gunman said:
Your correction makes me want to vomit, and if your really believe that you haven't been paying attention the last 7 years.
Ah, now I see my mistake. You see, I thought we were talking about nominations for this years election, not the actions of the past.

On second thought, lets also not choose candidates based on their willingness to support the Constitution. It's an old musty document that has no relevance anymore.
[/sarcasm]

PS. Stop reading too much into replies.
 
Rudy Baby has done more to harm our 2nd Amendmant rights than any other candidate out there, with the possible exception of Mitt Romney. Rudy Baby sued gun makers for the actions of violent NYC criminals. The case is currently on appeal after being thrown out.
 
I'm one NRA member who will never vote for him. The important thing is to dig into the voting records and past actions of all the candidates. I'm continually amazed at how these people try to evolve into something they are not.
 
I can't suppose Giuliani for this reason; he seems to be changing his stance solely to gain support from gun owners. Sounds too much to me like guys getting arrested and then 'finding Jesus'. (Just for the record I'm an ordained SoBap preacher, so I believe in people finding Jesus - or Jesus finding them. I just get suspicious about the details sometimes.)

Perhaps in 2012 we might examine Mr. Giuliani's position again. If in the interim, Mr. Giuliani has established himself as pro gun rights - or at least completely bought off - he might be worthy of consideration.

As far as the Washington Post is concerned, what does anyone expect? Their editorial staff are all owned and operated by the DNC.

Lone Gunman, try to be a little realistic. President Bush has not been a gun-owner's dream by any stretch. Nor has he been a nightmare. Considering the alternative we had, President Bush has done very well by us.

I'm still hopeful toward Fred Thompson. I'm prefer Duncan Hunter, but I think Thompson has the best chance of those whose view I can support and encourage.
 
I generally vote Republican, but if it comes down to Hillary vs. Rudy, I'll either be voting Libertarian or staying home and hiding my guns and ammo. :barf:

Right now, I'm leaning toward Fred Thompson, but I'd vote for Condi Rice if she'd run.
 
Lone Gunman, what are you getting exercised about? This is the first time I've ever seen someone get bothered over swapping "pander to the NRA" (the antis negative spin) with "support the Constitutional rights of the American citizens".

The NRA is still a 2A protection group right?

So, exactly what part of correcting anti spin makes you get so bothered that you want to vomit?
 
I'm one NRA member who will never vote for him. The important thing is to dig into the voting records and past actions of all the candidates. I'm continually amazed at how these people try to evolve into something they are not.

Amen.
 
My point is that in a previous post, the implication was made that the Republican nominees "support the Constitutional rights of the American citizens". For the most part, that statement is untrue, and you are incorrectly giving them credit.
 
Giuliani is one of the worst enemies we have ever had. He has made a career out of attacking the right to self-defense, and doing whatever he can to eliminate this right in his own city and state. This so called new found open-mindedness of his regarding the 2nd Amendment is nothing more than a lie he is telling so he can get the Republican Presidential nomination. I will never vote for him, and if the Republican Party leadership is dumb enough to have him as their presidential candidate, their will get a guaranteed and well deserved loss come election time.
 
-------quote---------
President Bush has not been a gun-owner's dream by any stretch. Nor has he been a nightmare. Considering the alternative we had, President Bush has done very well by us.
---------------------

Let me go ahead and do the content of the next five or six posts, just to get this over with:

Anti-Republicans:
There is no difference between saying you would sign a renewal of the old AWB (like Bush said), and actively campaigning for a new, stronger, more obnoxious AWB (like Gore and Kerry). Even if the Rs are marginally better on 2nd amdt issues, they are dangerous to other civil liberties in ways the Ds are not. I refuse to choose the lesser of two evils. I'm mad at Bush for (insert tinhat reason here)

Republicans:
If you refuse to choose the lesser of two evils, you will get the worse of two evils.

Moderators:
This is political. Thread closed.
 
Gun grabbers are like leopards...they cannot change theirs spots. And make no mistake. Giuliani is a gungrabber with few peers.

The most the leopard can do is roll in the mud to try and camouflage his spots. The most a gungrabber can do is fling around words and phrases to try and muddy the air hoping no one will notice or remember the past.

It won't work with me and it shouldn't work for any other true believer in 2A.
Giuliani has no business in a position of power, he would run true to form and use that position to advance the socioliberal agenda.
 
I'm one NRA member who will never vote for him. The important thing is to dig into the voting records and past actions of all the candidates. I'm continually amazed at how these people try to evolve into something they are not.

Wish I could believe that the RNC will figure this out soon...although I have no hope that this will occur. Giuliani is poison, and will ensure a Democrat victory in '08.

An awful lot of "R"s will not vote for Giuliani or McCain under any circumstances, and some feel the same about Romney. Others feel the same way about Thompson. While unfortunate, at least it demonstrates that a number of "R"s put principle above political gain. Whether this tact is beneficial to either the People or the Republic remains to be seen...IMHO, looks good on paper but may be The Beginning Of The End. Only time will tell.
 
I dont have the exact figures but the Police Chiefs also supported CCW buy a LARGE margin and a couple others like that which will never ppear in the newspaper/news broadcast.
 
I'm far more concerned about the NRA selling US out to endorse a "moderate" (and that's being generous IMO) pro-2A candidate like Rudy.
 
I'm one NRA member who will never vote for him. The important thing is to dig into the voting records and past actions of all the candidates. I'm continually amazed at how these people try to evolve into something they are not.

+1

Justin
 
I believe that the point that people are missing about Guiliani is that he's not only Anti 2A but more importantly he's Anti Individual Rights in general.

He's very much the Authoritarian who as Mayor of NYC was ALWAYS willing to stomp on Civil Rights and Personal Freedom to achieve his goals...in the end he has always used the End to try to justify the Means.

This incident with the NRA is nothing less than an attempt to placate the NRA and Gun Owners into thinking that he will not threaten the 2A as POTUS.

Don't fall for it folks....he's every bit as dangerous to Personal Freedom/Rights as collectivists like Clinton, Obama and Edwards.
 
I just emailed the NRA Hq, told them that if the NRA endorses Guiliana then they will be cancelling my life membership. No fr--king way will I assist that XX can't bring myself to say it. I'll go Thompson or stay home at this point.
 
Rudy's Double Speak

Listen carefully to what Rudy says. He has not changed his opinions on RKBA and the Second Amendment. He has just changed how he describes his position, with careful qualifier statements, to mislead and give an impression he has changed.

Spring /06 I heard him on Sean Hannity's radio show. Sean asked him about his position on gun control. His reply was that he believed in the right to own guns, but felt that the details of how people can own should be left to local community standards, and that different environments, such as big crowded city versus open rural country could make a difference in what makes sense.
TRANSLATION: He is still ok with the NYC/Chicago/DC style gun bans. Further, a Giuliani Dept of Justice would not intervene or even file amicus curiae briefs on 2A issues and RKBA in lawsuits filed against local authorities claiming violation of 2A.

I'm guessing Rudy's advisors told him his nuanced answer was still too transparent to the gun rights crowd, so he no longer talks about local standards.

I did listen to his entire NRA speech on C-Span Friday night.

First, every one at the conference should be offended by his silly cell phone call from the wife. If it was a real call (which I personally doubt), then it was offensive that as a featured speaker he left his cell phone on. (Plus, do you really believe his wife would not know when he is speaking in public?) On the other hand, if it was staged for the benefit of the audience ("Look at me! I love my wife! Can we say 'family values,' boys and girls?"), they should be offended he thinks them so stupid and gullible.

Second, when asked about the lawsuit against gun manufacturers, he did not say outright he now believes it was wrong. He said it has not gone in a direction he thinks is right. Gone in a direction? The purpose was to drive gun companies out of business. It is still trying to do that.

Next, he kept saying that after reading the Parker vs. D.C. decision, NOW he understand that the 2d Amendment describes an individual right, just like all the other Bill of Rights amendments. Is he so dense he could not see that before? As President, would he need court opinions to tell him every thing he must decide on?

Finally, he discussed the 2d amendment as a right that can only be guaranteed in a safe environment, just like the others listed in the Bill of Rights. He did NOT say that exercise of that right is what makes us safe. He implied that he would see a need to take other measures to make us safe, and only then could he guaranty the rights found in the Constitution.
TRANSLATION: We MIGHT just need to take your guns, to ensure safety. But don't worry; once you are totally safe, we'll think about letting you have new ones.

I'm figuring not one person at the NRA meeting was fooled.

Craig
 
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