Do You Carry With a Round In the Chamber While You CC or OC?

[Red Wind]

Beyond silly....what I have learned from this is if I don't carry with a round in the chamber:

So, 90% of the respondents here are hapless clowns? Good luck in your future chamberless life, Junior.

 

[jr_watkins]

"So, 90% of the respondents here are hapless clowns?"


Don't be so hard on yourself!


On this issue, the majority appear to be falling in line with bravado and paranoia trumping individual and situational choice. It IS a choice, so maybe respect that and stop making up long shot hypothetical's to back your choice as the only method. Or do, I guess I don't care what you do, just putting out a different opinion.

 

[Ironicaintit]

Hey Jr Watkins,

Whatever makes you feel safe, man.
I'm sure all of us here wish you the best, and never ever have to face a situation that makes you reconsider! I.E.- have to urgently chamber a round while simultaneously fending off an attack.

"Regardless", I don't like to treat firearms as if they are "safe". It's a weapon, of course it's dangerous! I wouldn't carry it if it didn't have that quality. Ergo, they should always be treated as such.

Full disclosure: In my youth, I did have a negligent discharge.

 

[Red Wind]

Don't be so hard on yourself!

I won't. I"ll give you a glowing review on your obituary notice. "He tried... but failed. The pipe was empty."

 

[Ironicaintit]

majority appear to be falling in line with bravado and paranoia

Please don't do that. choosing a more ready state of arms is our choice, as well.

 

[Deanimator]

An unloaded gun isn't at all helpful, but a quick rack of a slide to employ a magazine full (ok, less one) is very helpful.

Have you tried that one handed while trying to fend off a physical attack?

If you're afraid of your own firearm, why are you carrying that firearm?

 

[jr_watkins]

"Have you tried that one handed while trying to fend off a physical attack?

If you're afraid of your own firearm, why are you carrying that firearm?"


See, this is what I mean....I'm not afraid of my firearm, I choose to have the huge added safety of no round chambered yet somehow this equals I am afraid of my gun. Add this to my previous list of silly things posted in this thread.

A lot of new gun owners and people starting to CC read these posts. Most of the time the High Road posts are informative and have different viewpoints, but for some reason this issue is very one sided, but without realistic support. I think that carrying without a round in the chamber is a reasonable thing to do, might not be for all or even most, but reasonable all the same and worth considering.

In the latest example above, no, I have never fended off an attacker while trying to rack my slide. That would be near impossible....but have you ever pulled your gun from concealment while fending off an attacker....very, very unlikely. In fact, I'd say I would be better off having both arms in the fight until I can make space and then decide if drawing the gun is necessary....it might not be.

For what it is worth, I'm not new to this. I obtained my CC license when George Busch was Governor of Texas, a while ago. Somehow I have managed to CC all this time without being killed because I didn't have a round chambered.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Couple things here:

To carry with one in the pipe or not is an individual choice, and I'll not gainsay that for the individual.

It is a point of fact that in order for any firearm to be used AS a firearm (as opposed to, say, a club), there must first be a bullet in the chamber and the gun made ready to fire through the pulling of the trigger.

Regardless of how one chooses to carry a firearm, the above fact is universal.

If one makes a choice to carry their firearm with a round in the chamber, then there are some very basic assumptions and facts that go along with that. It is, for example, a factual statement that a gun with a loaded chamber is more readily able to be brought into defensive use. There is also the assumption that the owner of the gun understands exactly how that firearm is designed to work and how to safely carry it in a loaded condition.

If one makes a choice NOT to carry a firearm with a round in the chamber, there are likewise some very basic assumptions and facts that go along with that as well. For example, it is a factual statement that a firearm without a round in the chamber requires more actions on the part of the owner in order to bring that firearm into defensive play. One assumption that goes along with this is that the owner understands what this means, down to the mechanical and psychological level of actually making these actions happen under stress.


I, like many others, have my preferences. As stated before, I carry with a round in the chamber. I also understand how my carry gun is designed to do this safely, and I understand how to operate it mechanically to make that happen.

It is a fact that one cannot know the exact circumstances of any potentially deadly encounter...life isn't a scripted movie with mapped out dramatic scenes. The best one can do is to work to reasonably decrease their response times to such events...because what the whole issue of "deadly force" is all about is defending your very life and well-being.

Whether one chooses to carry with or without a round in the chamber, one should very carefully and honestly evaluate WHY. Because this is serious business, and if you don't know WHY in either situation, then you're not prepared.

My opinion, for what it's worth to anybody who may read this, is that if you choose NOT to carry with a round in the chamber, you need to actually list the reasons why, and then see if there is a way to mitigate this.

For example, some may choose not to carry with a round in the chamber because they have a Glock, which has no external safety other than the one built into the trigger. Maybe a solution to this is a different gun.

Maybe another reason is they're new to the subject of gun ownership and carry and lack experience and confidence. Maybe a solution is more training and range time, maybe some time with people who understand the weapon they have chosen to carry.


Bottom line:

Make your choice...but understand WHY and realize the potential consequences, whichever way you choose.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Carry Ready

An empty weapon will get you killed.

 

[200Apples]

.
Posting without reading any replies. I did vote, "Always".

Though my right to bear a firearm is restricted by not only the State of California but also by the City of Los Angeles, I do carry a 1911-pattern pistol whenever possible and in a Bianchi version of a Yaquii Slide.

The 1911 is the only pistol I will ever carry with a loaded chamber, cocked, and locked. I consider this carry condition safe due to the gun's design. There may be other semi-auto pistols with designs similar to the 1911 but I am not practiced in their manual of arms.

Carrying a pistol with an empty chamber is like starting a race from the very back of the grid. Why anyone would deliberately wish to handicap their race in such a manner is beyond me (save for the brilliant decision by Mercedes at Spa to take penalties in order to supply Hamilton's side of the garage with three fresh engines for the remainder of the season).

 

[jr_watkins]

RetiredUSNChief, you make several good points. I should describe why I don't carry with a round in the chamber.

I carry most of the time, at home, in town, everywhere but at the office as it isn't allowed. I also frequent places that don't allow CC like the county government offices, school events, sporting events, and ....dare I say...bars. Yep, been known to spend some time on a bar stool from time to time.
This results is my gun coming out of the holster, back in the holster, back out again, several times a day. I don't really know how to mitigate this as I am not willing to change the places I go to accommodate CC. I wear the holster basically anytime I have pants on.
I do carry a Glock and I am concerned about the re-holstering aspect. Many years ago I made a conscious decision based on probability and my personal physical reaction time and awareness to carry unchambered so I would have the additional safety during the frequent gun movement throughout the day.
Additionally, I always have the trigger pulled on the empty chamber and that is easily verified by either sight or feel with any Glock. I know right away that the chamber is empty from this indication. This doesn't mean I am any less careful or that I don't follow the 4 rules. I just know and am reminded.

I tried to look up some statistics about CC shootings and whatnot, but haven't really been able to find any that support CC chambered or unchambered either way. In fact, CC statistics that involve aggressive conflicts don't appear to exist at all. If someone knows of them, I'd be happy to hear.

 

[CoRoMo]

Next poll...how many of you 200+ 'round-in-the-chamberers' have ever had a ND?

Just providing my answer to the member who asked, as I'm one of the 'round-in-the-chamberers'.

I think I count five, maybe six different handguns that I've carried in my years... not a single ND from any, and none were ever carried anything but Condition 1.

 

[jr_watkins]

Of the two who responded, one has had a ND....that's 50%!!!!!

Obviously Just kidding.

 

[Red Wind]

Bottom line:

Make your choice...but understand WHY and realize the potential consequences, whichever way you choose.

That was a fine,insightful, unbiased post. Thank you, Chief.

 

[Ranger Roberts]

Always have and always will!

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

RetiredUSNChief, you make several good points. I should describe why I don't carry with a round in the chamber.

I carry most of the time, at home, in town, everywhere but at the office as it isn't allowed. I also frequent places that don't allow CC like the county government offices, school events, sporting events, and ....dare I say...bars. Yep, been known to spend some time on a bar stool from time to time.
This results is my gun coming out of the holster, back in the holster, back out again, several times a day. I don't really know how to mitigate this as I am not willing to change the places I go to accommodate CC. I wear the holster basically anytime I have pants on.
I do carry a Glock and I am concerned about the re-holstering aspect. Many years ago I made a conscious decision based on probability and my personal physical reaction time and awareness to carry unchambered so I would have the additional safety during the frequent gun movement throughout the day.
Additionally, I always have the trigger pulled on the empty chamber and that is easily verified by either sight or feel with any Glock. I know right away that the chamber is empty from this indication. This doesn't mean I am any less careful or that I don't follow the 4 rules. I just know and am reminded.

I tried to look up some statistics about CC shootings and whatnot, but haven't really been able to find any that support CC chambered or unchambered either way. In fact, CC statistics that involve aggressive conflicts don't appear to exist at all. If someone knows of them, I'd be happy to hear.

An out standing summary of your specific concerns and why you choose to carry the way you do.

Let's see if we can use this as an exercise to determine if any means to mitigate your concerns.


Regardless of the type of firearm, handling the firearm puts you in a more dangerous posture. Some designs are more or less susceptible to a negligent discharge than others under certain conditions. Which means that if you leave your gun holstered, you minimize/eliminate this concern.

So you might want to look into a different kind of holster. There are holsters which allow you to easily don and remove them without ever having to unholster your gun...or having to deal with taking your belt halfway off, for that matter.


I have a Milt Sparks Criterion IWB holster, with neodymium magnetic belt loop system. The Criterion also comes with conventional snaps as well, if you don't like the optional magnetic system. To remove the holster, all I have to do is flip the magnetic "snaps" and pull the holster straight up, gun and all. No fuss, no muss. To don it again: Slide the holster/gun back between my pants/body, flip the loops around my belt and snap.

http://www.miltsparks.com/products-criterion.php

Note in the picture at the link above that the entire trigger guard is also covered/protected by the holster. An excellent design for a Glock, as it make it impossible to touch or snag the trigger when donning or removing the entire holster/gun. It also makes it impossible to snag the trigger while carrying as well.

 

[jr_watkins]

RetiredUSNChief,

Interesting suggestion, I was not aware of such a holster. I haven't been a fan of the IWB style holsters for comfort reasons, but I don't rule it out. So these magnetic 'snaps' hold secure in your experience?
As in secure when actually moving around like people do, not as in 'secure when stationary' as has been my experience with many of the box full of holster-ish contraptions I tried in my early years.

I have been using a cheap Blackhawk Serpa paddle (I know, I know, everyone hates them) for a few years that works for me because it is hard plastic and when it gets wet, and/or dirty as it does several days a week from 'sweat-through', I can just wipe it off and is as good as new. Holds the gun very secure in all body positions, even upside down! The position makes grabbing my gun easy to get the right grip on as it isn't too close to my body. Anyway, I'm open to improvements so thank you for the suggestion.

As for the round chambered carry, I'm afraid that ship sailed for me many years ago. Admittedly, I am set in my ways and nothing I have read in this thread has prompted me to change my mind. I go forth, unwieldy club at my side!

If nothing else, maybe someone reading this thread realizes there is a choice to be made and, as you said, they need to make it themselves.

 

[Deanimator]

"Have you tried that one handed while trying to fend off a physical attack?

If you're afraid of your own firearm, why are you carrying that firearm?"


See, this is what I mean....I'm not afraid of my firearm, I choose to have the huge added safety of no round chambered yet somehow this equals I am afraid of my gun. Add this to my previous list of silly things posted in this thread.

A lot of new gun owners and people starting to CC read these posts. Most of the time the High Road posts are informative and have different viewpoints, but for some reason this issue is very one sided, but without realistic support. I think that carrying without a round in the chamber is a reasonable thing to do, might not be for all or even most, but reasonable all the same and worth considering.

In the latest example above, no, I have never fended off an attacker while trying to rack my slide. That would be near impossible....but have you ever pulled your gun from concealment while fending off an attacker....very, very unlikely. In fact, I'd say I would be better off having both arms in the fight until I can make space and then decide if drawing the gun is necessary....it might not be.

For what it is worth, I'm not new to this. I obtained my CC license when George Busch was Governor of Texas, a while ago. Somehow I have managed to CC all this time without being killed because I didn't have a round chambered.

1. You didn't answer my first question. I'm going to conclude that the answer is "no".
2. If you're not afraid of it, why do you carry it in a condition that prevents its meaningful use? If you're not afraid of your firearm, why do you carry in a way which CREATES as much danger from an unlawful deadly force attack as it supposedly mitigates from an ND?
3. I adjust my carry to the situation. I don't carry and drink, PERIOD. It's illegal here. I still wouldn't do it if it weren't.
4. You're concerned about "safety", yet you use a garbage holster.

By observation, justifications for unloaded carry always seem to involve a lot of internal contradictions.

 

[Fiv3r]

I too have to holster and unholster several times a day. I go in and out of customer's homes as well as government buildings a lot. I carry my Glock in a Safariland paddle holster when I wear a coat or overshirt or a rigid leather IWB that clips on.

That way I don't have to unholster my Glock multiple times from a seated position. As a matter of fact, I pretty much don't have to ever take the gun out of the holster unless I want to shoot/clean it if I use the leather IWB. I get home, unclip it, and put it in the safe. The paddle holster is too bulky for that, so it has to be removed and slid into a flatter one before it goes in.

 

[jr_watkins]

Deanimator,

I think I did answer both your questions.....

"In the latest example above, no, I have never fended off an attacker while trying to rack my slide. That would be near impossible....but have you ever pulled your gun from concealment while fending off an attacker....very, very unlikely. In fact, I'd say I would be better off having both arms in the fight until I can make space and then decide if drawing the gun is necessary....it might not be. "

"I'm not afraid of my firearm, I choose to have the huge added safety of no round chambered yet somehow this equals I am afraid of my gun."

I'd say those were both answered.

I have made the decision that the likelihood of my being attacked by surprise is much less than the likelihood that some chain of events transpires and there is a ND or the like caused by a round being chambered. My gun is still there, ready within seconds if need be. I'll give up the few seconds for the added safety, my choice. YMMV as they say.

I specifically said I didn't carry when drinking, hence removing my gun from my holster and person, so....?

I forgot, YOU get to determine what equipment works for me.

By observation this conversation with you is not adding anything positive to the discussion.

 

[jr_watkins]

Fiv3r,

Seems a good option and I appreciate that you have thought this out in conjunction with real experience.

 

[TomJ]

jr_watkins,

My Glocks are carried more than any other gun I own. Being in Illinois, we have a number of places that are gun free by law such as my son's school and our library, which I frequent often, and I'm reholstering my gun several times per day. I'm aware of the concerns of reholstering Glocks and am especially careful when doing so. I use IWB holsters that maintain their shape, such as Crossbreed or Aliengear, helping prevent the trigger from snagging on the holster. I make sure no clothing is in the way and keep my finger on the side of the trigger so I can feel any movement. I do similar things when carrying my CZ, with the difference being I place my thumb on the hammer when reholstering.

I prefer to carry with a round in the chamber as I've been unexpectedly attacked in the past (fortunately it's been a long time since it's happened) and the speed in which it happens makes me more comfortable having the gun already chambered. I was also a LEO in the Chicago area for years, carried with one in the chamber, so it's what I'm accustomed to. Just some food for thought, as we all need to do what we're comfortable with.

Tom

 

[Deanimator]

Deanimator,

I think I did answer both your questions.....

"In the latest example above, no, I have never fended off an attacker while trying to rack my slide. That would be near impossible....but have you ever pulled your gun from concealment while fending off an attacker....very, very unlikely. In fact, I'd say I would be better off having both arms in the fight until I can make space and then decide if drawing the gun is necessary....it might not be. "

"I'm not afraid of my firearm, I choose to have the huge added safety of no round chambered yet somehow this equals I am afraid of my gun."

I'd say those were both answered.

I have made the decision that the likelihood of my being attacked by surprise is much less than the likelihood that some chain of events transpires and there is a ND or the like caused by a round being chambered. My gun is still there, ready within seconds if need be. I'll give up the few seconds for the added safety, my choice. YMMV as they say.

I specifically said I didn't carry when drinking, hence removing my gun from my holster and person, so....?

I forgot, YOU get to determine what equipment works for me.

By observation this conversation with you is not adding anything positive to the discussion.

Not so long a go, we had a guy in Dayton get jumped by a couple of druggies while pumping gas. He in fact DID manage to hold off his assailants long enough to shoot one of them twice, causing the other to flee. His firearm was loaded at the time of the attack. By his own admission, had he not had a round in the chamber, he probably would have been overpowered, disarmed, and probably shot. Do you think he would have done BETTER with an empty chamber?

I've given you an example where somebody was able to deploy a loaded firearm during a double team attack.

Can you cite one where somebody was similarly able to defend himself with an UNLOADED firearm?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

RetiredUSNChief,

Interesting suggestion, I was not aware of such a holster. I haven't been a fan of the IWB style holsters for comfort reasons, but I don't rule it out. So these magnetic 'snaps' hold secure in your experience?
As in secure when actually moving around like people do, not as in 'secure when stationary' as has been my experience with many of the box full of holster-ish contraptions I tried in my early years.

I have been using a cheap Blackhawk Serpa paddle (I know, I know, everyone hates them) for a few years that works for me because it is hard plastic and when it gets wet, and/or dirty as it does several days a week from 'sweat-through', I can just wipe it off and is as good as new. Holds the gun very secure in all body positions, even upside down! The position makes grabbing my gun easy to get the right grip on as it isn't too close to my body. Anyway, I'm open to improvements so thank you for the suggestion.

As for the round chambered carry, I'm afraid that ship sailed for me many years ago. Admittedly, I am set in my ways and nothing I have read in this thread has prompted me to change my mind. I go forth, unwieldy club at my side!

If nothing else, maybe someone reading this thread realizes there is a choice to be made and, as you said, they need to make it themselves.

Yes, these snaps are very secure. And is stays put where I wear it.

It is a truism that many people, after going the expense of buying a handgun, often do not realize just how important, and how much of a difference it makes, to have a good holster AND a good belt. I can personally attest to my own ignorance in the matter in that regard. It makes a world of difference.

Don't think you're too set in your ways...it's amazing what changes an intelligent person can make once presented with solid information and a will to do better. This is, after all, how we grow and improve.

Even if you continue on carrying without a round in the chamber, you'll at least know WHY you do it AND in the back of your mind you'll be evaluating this, looking for improvements.

Maybe those improvements will include a new holster. Maybe a different gun with an external safety. Maybe training that focuses on tactics revolving bringing an unchambered firearm into play. Whatever...so long as you're thinking and improving.

 

[skoro]

Without exception.