Does Ron Paul have a chance?

[Igloodude]

If the Reps and the Dems laugh so hard at third party votes, why do they show up in forums every other October alternating between begging with and browbeating anyone who says that they intend to vote third party?

Anyway, the disconnect is clear. If you tend to favor the Republican Party platform, you'll tend to vote for the lesser of two evils come Election Day because one of them isn't really very evil at all. If you tend to favor policies of which some are Republican planks, some Democrat, and some that don't show up on either party's website, then you'll more than likely not worry so much about the slightly-more-evil Democrats taking power, because it is pretty much a matter of drinking hemlock, diet hemlock, or beer on that particular Tuesday.

 

[GRIZ22]

That has nothing to do with Ron Paul, he is running as a REPUBLICAN

If he has running he needs to get a better press secretary as no one in the Northeast has heard of him.

 

[Patriot-Brewer]

Voting 3rd party helps your enemy, whether your a Dem or Rep.

Going out with honor is fine, just remember to tell your grandchildren why they have no chance to shoot some of the firearms we enjoy. I'm not directing this at anybody but ego and emotion can get in the way of rationale thinking, I think we all need to remember that.

We can spend all our $ buying lottery tickets, our be practicle and put a little away every month for the inevitable "retirement" thats coming.

I respect you all who'll vote your conscience in the general election, I just don't think it's helping our cause. But, since we're all on the same side, except for Zumbo and his buddies, you have my understanding.

 

[Augustwest]

Vote to slow the train as much as possible, not speed it up. The longer it takes for the train to derail, the more time there is for preparation.

If you vote for someone you know will not win, knowing full well it will help the "enemy" acquire their goal, what have you accomplished. All you'd be doing is destroying our 2A for our children instead of our grandchildren or great grandchildren.

Couple/few things to keep in mind:

-Some of us don't see the train going any slower with one party than the other at the controls.
-Some of the worst abuses of Amendment II have been signed into law by mainstream Republican administrations.
-There are 7 Articles and 9 other Amendments that are in peril too, and the modern GOP hasn't been a friend to all of them...

 

[flynnguy]

By all logic, I'm throwing my vote away if I vote for anything other than Dem. since I live in the horrible state of NJ. Does that mean I'm going to stay home? Does that mean I'm going to vote for Hillary? Hell no! I will definitely be voting for Ron Paul in the Republican primaries. What if he doesn't win the primaries, will I still vote for him if he decides to run under the Libertarian platform?

Yes, and I'll tell you why... People think that by voting for a libertarian is stealing votes for a republican and voting green is stealing votes from a Democrat but it goes much deeper than that. I've seen a number of people say they thought they were liberal but found out there were really a libertarian. So would you rather have a liberal vote for Hillary because a vote for Ron Paul is a wasted vote? Would you rather vote for a republican who takes away your freedoms and guns than "throw away" your vote?

I will gladly "throw away" my vote for Ron Paul in the hopes that everyone else who is debating on "throwing away" their vote makes the same decision I made and we start changing this country back to what it should be.

You're only really throwing away your vote if you vote for someone you don't truly believe in. (ie. voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil)

 

[flynnguy]

Going out with honor is fine, just remember to tell your grandchildren why they have no chance to shoot some of the firearms we enjoy.

And what will you tell them when it's the republicans who took it away? Or will you be too afraid that the government will listen in and record your conversation and label you a terrorist under the PATRIOT ACT?

 

[Biker]

I'm not intersted in seeing the train slow down. I want to see it stopped or wrecked. It's time.
Sometimes, there ain't nothin' at the end of the tunnel but a brick wall.

Biker

 

[Titan6]

Patriot Brewer

Shoot I just noticed your loc on your post. Are you in California?

(Takes out flame thrower)
How is that slow 'em down strategy working for you out there? Now that the Republican Governator is out there running things should be right back on track hunh? With the AWB lifted you should be GTG. Oh wait, it didn't get lifted there did it?
(puts flame thrower away)

In the end we may lose and my kids may not be able to shoot grandpa's gun but I would still hope to have their respect. If you don't stick to your principals you may wake up some morning without any. The end result your way or mine will likely still be the same but I will be able to lok myself in the mirror every day knowing I made the right choice.

 

[oldfart]

My tin-foil hat may be a bit too tight but I've studied a whole bunch of general elections and their outcomes and I've reached a conclusion that I'm sure most of you will think is a load of BS. Anyway....

What makes any of you think your vote counts for anything? I don't remember right now who said it but it goes something like this: 'The voters don't matter as much as the vote counters.' How many of the most populous states (the ones with the most electoral college votes) are now using electronic voting machines? Sure, there's a call to change them so that individual voters get a receipt showing their choices, but anybody wanna bet whether or not such a change is instituted before the 2008 elections? And this is just the more modern version of ballot-box stuffing. How many of you remember the Governor's election in Washington State? Somehow, King County just "happened" to find a few more votes (paper ones) for Gregoire every time they needed them. I wish I could lay all this at the feet of the Democratic Party but I (and you) know full well that the Pubbies are just as bad. Frankly, I don't think it makes any difference how or even whether we vote. The outcome has been decided in a corporate boardroom somewhere in Belgium or Switzerland.
No, our quadrennial voting exercise can only be likened to the Roman games where the people would cry for the gladiator to live only to be overruled by the Emperor. If you think I'm wrong, then try to explain how Jimmy Carter won.

Ok, my tinfoil hat has been covered with nomex. Have at it.

 

[only1asterisk]

Throwing yourself under the train doesn't slow it down much. If Americans had been voting for the best man in the race all along we wouldn't be in this fix.

David

 

[Biker]

only1asterisk...

By God, that's truth in a teacup. Wish I could talk that purdy...

Biker

 

[only1asterisk]

Another way of looking at it might be having to choose between dangerous medicine and slow acting poison.

David

 

[Sungun09]

He'll get at least one vote... mine

 

[Patriot-Brewer]

Biker, I'd like to see the train wreck too, just not sure if we're ready is all.

Titan...if we gunnies in Kali always voted our conscience in the general election, we'd probably have NO semi's and less of everything else. I'm not saying that the Republicans are innocent, they're almost as bad as the Democrats IMO, but I'd rather have my firearms banned slowly then helping them get banned next year.

Please don't play that lame "your in Kali" game. Draw a 35 mile radius circle around LA and San Fran and make them disappear, and this state would have an A rating on this board. We're just trying to survive as long as possible. Not everyone can just get pissed and say "I'm moving!". There's a whole lot more reality then that...like the business my wife and I own, children, tons of family and friends. (Kali's problems is a whole other thread)

In a perfect, working government and election process, yes, I would vote my conscience throughout the entire process. Reality, IMO, dictates just trying to delay the inevitable, that's all.

 

[STAGE 2]

Imagine if every American who supported Paul would fight to win instead of draw?

It still wouldn't matter. I follow politics as closely as anyone I know and but for my membership on this board I wouldn't have known he existed.

I understand voting one's beliefs. I really do. My primary vote is going to either Hunter, or Tancredo. But when the nomination goes to someone other than those WHICH IT WILL, the BEST thing I can do for my rights is to put the person in office who is least offensive.

No one can argue with this last part. When your horse is out of the race it makes no sense to place a bet.

Everyone here who voted Democrat or anything else in the last elections shot wack themselves over the head. If republicans still had control of congress this AWB would be non-existent. Becuase of theri stupidity and short sightedness we now have to put all of our duckets in the executive branch which is bleak to say the least.

Voting principle doesn't have to mean voting stupid.

 

[bowfin]

He will have my vote, my voice, and my contribution, even if the only votes he gets are mine and his own, and we have to gather aluminum cans together to buy posterboard for signs.

 

[Igloodude]

Voting 3rd party helps your enemy, whether your a Dem or Rep.

:banghead:

There's an awful lot of people that are inherently neither Dem nor Rep - most often, they're fiscally conservative and socially liberal.

 

[Patriot-Brewer]

Only1...
I agree with your "if only" theory, but who decides "best candidate" for everyone. Are you talking guns, taxes, roads, environment, space, the color of fire hydrants? We can dream of all the "if only's" we want, but it isn't changing the current situation. And if I thought that a giant movement to elect our ultimate canidate was alive and well, I'd be carrying you on my shoulders to the polling booth.

Let's not forget ol' Ross Perot. He had a huge following and only succeeded in getting slick willy into office. I voted for him, being sick of the crap, as you are, but did it do anything? No, we got Billary for 8 years.

humbly,
P-B

 

[Patriot-Brewer]

Igloo, I agree, but election results don't show it. We live in a 2 party system, realistically, whether we like it or not.

 

[Igloodude]

And the two parties actively conspire to keep it that way. Have you taken a look at the membership of the Federal Election Commission? Do you think any new voting scheme that makes the "lesser of two evil" issue fade is going to make it through a legislative branch that is 99% evil? One of the reasons I don't see Dems as being appreciably worse than Reps is because the Reps do everything in their power to make sure that the Dems remain a viable opponent.

 

[Deanimator]

No, no chance at all.

Ron Paul's ONLY chance to see the inside of the White House except on Congressional business involves ALL of the other candidates of BOTH parties being killed in a freak electrocution a la the movie "King Ralph".

I know that makes some people sad, but I almost never cater to people's irrational fantasies. It's why I gave up religion. It's why I disdain socialism. It's why I oppose gun control.

 

[Titan6]

Try to look at it this way...

Rudy G gets nominated and is on the ticket running against Clinton. There is something in the water so on election day he is down 20 points in the polls and it is likely that the only state he will carry is New Hampshire who will you vote for?

If you say Rudy G than you are throwing your vote anyway. So why do it? You don't really believe in what he stands for and he has no hope of winning so why?

 

[Titan6]

The answer of course is that you would not.

If your argument falls apart under the light logic and reason than it is not a good argument.

This country was forged on spirted political debate much more so in the past than these days where the candidates read canned answers in front of a tele-prompter that don't really hold them to anything. Now we have the internet and its use as a forum for debate and medium for communication is rapidly changing politics in this country.

 

[Trueno]

Well said, 007. Go out swinging and moving forward. Imagine if every American who supported Paul would fight to win instead of draw?

Biker

Well said both of you! What's gettin' me up to a slow burn is that sprinkled throughout this thread is the same old comment "throwing away a vote". Is that the mindset of some whooped wannabes? Somebody mentioned "reality"...how about WE create (VOTE) our own reality?

Heck, I thought page 4 would start to turn this thread around but the naysayers are in full swing. Hey you bunch of MORIARTY'S, what's with the negative waves?

"They" got you beat down already?

80 million gun owners, put up or shut up.

t

PS > never heard of Ron Paul? that's okay 'cause I sure don't know who in sam blazes Tancredo or Romney are either.

 

[rhubarb]

Patriot-Brewer wrote:

Voting 3rd party helps your enemy, whether your a Dem or Rep.

What if you aren't a Dem or Rep and consider them both your enemy?

For whom <wrings hands> should I vote?