Drew down on a Stranger in My Back Yard

[Biker]

In truth, I think that Captain Mike's response was completely out of line and could have been handled just as effectively without all of the theatrics. It's these kind of things that get us labeled as 'trigger- happy gun nuts'.
No offense intended to Captain Mike, just my opinion.
Biker

 

[Trip20]

At my stage in training, I would have had a firearm ready and hid and spied on him from the inside until I could figure out what was going on.

Your response is more than adequate, and appropriate IMO. Consider that a few more minutes of surveillance, from the safety of your home, armed, dog at your side, and a cell phone ready to call for help, might have allowed you to observe the "intruder" taking apart your pool filter. Well heck, now you don't have to jump outside like Walker Texas Ranger... you can go offer the dude some iced tea and hope to get a break on the cost of parts.

In most cases, an armed person's response to a "situation" should mirror the response they would give if unarmed - that is, up until deadly force is warranted. This, IMO, is one of those cases.

 

[MDG1976]

You're lucky you're not in jail right now, charged with brandishing or felonious restraint.

 

[sturmruger]

You might have overacted some, but at least you did something. I am sure that kid will always check in with homeowners in the future.

 

[Kodiaz]

I have to agree with drawing your weapon first it is your backyard and at least in my state you can carry openly on your property. It would have been much better strategically speaking to open a window and call out to find out his story. If he is a bg and tries something you have your weapon in your hand and you are inside the house (In Fl most homes have concrete block/ cement walls). Which means you are probably behind cover while he is in the open. But if it works and it's legal it's great.

 

[torpid]

My last words to him were simply "Next time, don't help yourself to somebody's back yard. And of course --->Ring .... The .... Doorbell..."

Argh, I just chafe at the attitude that I perceive coming through at the end of CAPTAIN MIKE's post.

He seems rather proud of holding the legit pool guy at gunpoint instead of feeling abashed about pointing a loaded gun at a person who was not a "bad guy", and was only on his property to perform a hired service for him.

Yes, the new pool guy should have tried the doorbell instead of hopping the gate to more quickly to attend to his pool, but CAPTAIN MIKE obviously fails to see that the "oops" onus cuts both ways in this unpleasant scenario that could have very easily been avoided without someone staring down the muzzle of a loaded .45.

.


.

 

[gc67]

Something like that could get you charged with attempted aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. You never know when the DA could be in a bad mood

 

[ArmedBear]

I have to agree with Pebcac. In my neck of the woods, the cops would frown upon this. I might even get ticketed for brandishing a firearm.
Biker

I thought you lived in Idaho.

 

[ArmedBear]

Something like that could get you charged with attempted aggravated assault with a deadly weapon. You never know when the DA could be in a bad mood

*** is "attempted assault"?

 

[Mannlicher]

Maybe just a tad of over reaction?

 

[Biker]

I thought you lived in Idaho.

I certainly do, and I've seen 'brandishing' tickets handed out for justifieably shooting a dog. It can happen, and I'm guessing that it would for Captain Mike's actions.
I dunno, watching a guy walk toward your pool and away from your house in broad daylight then pouncing out with a Kimber and Cujo upon a surprised and apparantly unarmed poolboy then puttin' him on his belly before calling 911 seems a bit over the top to me, but maybe I'm just on the complacent side.
Excuse me, I'd better go load up my green-tip 5.56s in my Bushmater mags so I'm ready for the UPS man tomorrow.
If he does exactly as I tell him, he may walk out of this yard alive.

Biker

 

[ArmedBear]

Maybe just a tad of over reaction?

He might have saved the kid's life, somewhere down the line. He probably won't do that again.

I won't say whether someone overreacted. Depends on the neighborhood, and what has been going on lately.

I've lived somewhere that I might have done that. Better safe than sorry, provided I kept the safety on. Where I live now, I might have a gun, but I wouldn't point it at someone off the bat. The dog will keep him busy. She's the world's most effusive, friendly pit bull, but he doesn't know that.

 

[bruss01]

Hmmm...

Is there anything wrong with an "observe from concealment" approach?

If a bad guy came into my back yard, lugging a 100 pound sack of chemicals and a pool skimmer, and proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes dabbling about the pool (rather than lugging a crowbar and spending several minutes looking for a point of entry to the house), I might begin to suspect he might be something other than an iminent threat to life and limb... possibly a new pool boy, perhaps? Oh well better draw a gun on him anyway just to be on the safe side. At least that'll let him know what he's in for if he starts fooling around with my wife. Best to begin as we mean to go on, you know.

 

[ArmedBear]

I certainly do, and I've seen 'brandishing' tickets handed out for justifieably shooting a dog. It can happen, and I'm guessing that it would for Captain Mike's actions.
I dunno, watching a guy walk toward your pool and away from your house in broad daylight then pouncing out with a Kimber and Cujo upon a surprised and apparantly unarmed poolboy then puttin' him on his belly before calling 911 seems a bit over the top to me, but maybe I'm just on the complacent side.
Excuse me, I'd better go load up my green-tip 5.56s in my Bushmater mags so I'm ready for the UPS man tomorrow.
If he does exactly as I tell him, he may walk out of this yard alive.

Biker

LOL

Well, this much I will say. Nowhere in Idaho, at least where I've been, would I feel the need to do that. The states with the best carry laws tend to be the places where I don't feel like I need a gun, at least to defend against human predators.

But there are some places in the Los Angeles area where I might point a gun. I probably wouldn't have the guy lie face-down unless he really seemed like a thug.

Here in San Diego, I stood unarmed, face-to-face with a very large man who had just mugged a couple young girls, though, right behind my place. Fortunately for me, he ran. With the help of boxer-clad neighbors, we trapped him in the bushes 'til the cops got there. In that situation, I would most certainly have had him dropn if I'd been armed. He was huge.

So I will guess that this was a bit of an overreaction, but I won't judge unless I've walked a mile in the ol' moccasins.

 

[Biker]

Fact is Armed bear, I likely would've eye-balled him from the window for a moment or two then slipped my .38 snubbie in my hip pocket (already have the Taurus 450 on my ankle) and *then* I would've walked out to make sure that things were cool.
Back in the day, I might've had reason to be more careful (but not *that* careful!), but I lead a different life today and can afford to approach a situation with a bit less tension.
You're right - I'm not wearing those shoes.
Biker

 

[rock jock]

Here's a rule of thumb: if a jury wouldn't buy it, you probably should think twice.

 

[Biker]

Here's a rule of thumb: if a jury wouldn't buy it, you probably should think twice.

Damn good rule.
Biker

 

[Mainsail]

He might have saved the kid's life, somewhere down the line. He probably won't do that again.

Maybe, but after he wins a big settlement from your homeowners insurance comapny, he may start jumping fences all over town.

 

[orionengnr]

quote

"I dunno, watching a guy walk toward your pool and away from your house in broad daylight then pouncing out with a Kimber and Cujo upon a surprised and apparantly unarmed poolboy then puttin' him on his belly before calling 911 seems a bit over the top to me, but maybe I'm just on the complacent side."

quote:
"If a bad guy came into my back yard, lugging a 100 pound sack of chemicals and a pool skimmer, and proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes dabbling about the pool (rather than lugging a crowbar and spending several minutes looking for a point of entry to the house), I might begin to suspect he might be something other than an iminent threat to life and limb... possibly a new pool boy, perhaps? Oh well better draw a gun on him anyway just to be on the safe side. At least that'll let him know what he's in for if he starts fooling around with my wife. Best to begin as we mean to go on, you know."

I read every post and did not see ANY reference to the guy being nonchalant or carrying anything indicating his harmless intentions.

Paycheck for a Monday morning quarterback must be pretty good--sure seems as if there are plenty of them out there.

I note that a lot of the negative responses come from parts of the country where rights are, shall we say, "limited". Perhaps some posters speak of what might happen in their own state, without knowledge of the law in the state where the poster lives. Might be worth a look-see before jumping to conclusions.

I will not pass judgement on the poster, as I was not there. I will certainly not condemn someone for being cautious, suspicious, and protective of his family and his property, as occurences varying from "strange encounter" to "atrocity" happen daily.

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[Geno]

In Michigan, unless you have No Trespass signs, you might be in trouble.

In Michigan, unless you have No Trespass signs, you might be in trouble. I think this is just a bit too much. He was outside. You were inside. He didn't see you. You saw him. He had no gun. You had a gun. He had no dog. You had a dog. If I were the pool guy, I'd be upset. I might even have to change careers but not before I changed my shorts. So, where do you go when he sues you for P.T.S.D.? In Michigan, this was clearly a bad draw. I didn't see you state. If they're outside--call the police! If they're inside, drop them, then call the police. I say this from experience. I have been there several times. This is not how I handled it.

Doc2005

 

[Gunsnrovers]

I note that a lot of the negative responses come from parts of the country where rights are, shall we say, "limited".

*** is that supposed to mean? Just because you can carry a gun doesn't mean every opportunity to draw it becomes a blue light special.

Maybe it's because I'm just a simple little sheep living in Los Angeles, but in my little world there is definately a line between being cautious and suspicious and drawing down on someone and putting them face first in the dirt.

Perhaps a simple, "Can I help you?" when said from concealment and cover would create a better response then demanding he go prone while you threaten him with your dog.

Take some blood pressure pills and ratchet it down a notch. It is in fact possible to live your life being cautious and careful and not seeing every stranger as a potential bullet stop.

 

[Biker]

"I dunno, watching a guy walk toward your pool and away from your house in broad daylight then pouncing out with a Kimber and Cujo upon a surprised and apparantly unarmed poolboy then puttin' him on his belly before calling 911 seems a bit over the top to me, but maybe I'm just on the complacent side."

quote:
"If a bad guy came into my back yard, lugging a 100 pound sack of chemicals and a pool skimmer, and proceeded to spend the next 10 minutes dabbling about the pool (rather than lugging a crowbar and spending several minutes looking for a point of entry to the house), I might begin to suspect he might be something other than an iminent threat to life and limb... possibly a new pool boy, perhaps? Oh well better draw a gun on him anyway just to be on the safe side. At least that'll let him know what he's in for if he starts fooling around with my wife. Best to begin as we mean to go on, you
know."

I read every post and did not see ANY reference to the guy being nonchalant or carrying anything indicating his harmless intentions.

Paycheck for a Monday morning quarterback must be pretty good--sure seems as if there are plenty of them out there.

I note that a lot of the negative responses come from parts of the country where rights are, shall we say, "limited". Perhaps some posters speak of what might happen in their own state, without knowledge of the law in the state where the poster lives. Might be worth a look-see before jumping to conclusions.

I will not pass judgement on the poster, as I was not there. I will certainly not condemn someone for being cautious, suspicious, and protective of his family and his property, as occurences varying from "strange encounter" to "atrocity" happen daily.

Lighten up, Francis.

First off, the name is Mick, not Francis.
Secondly, Captain Mike either made the original post looking for a critique or as entertainment.
For me, it was entertaining and I gave a critique although I usually avoid doing so. This one just seemed to be...different.
So, bottom line? Don't ask if ya don't wanna hear.
Biker

 

[taliv]

note that a lot of the negative responses come from parts of the country where rights are, shall we say, "limited". Perhaps some posters speak of what might happen in their own state, without knowledge of the law in the state where the poster lives. Might be worth a look-see before jumping to conclusions.

please tell me what state permits you to point a gun or force someone to lay down given the circumstances captain mike explained.

 

[NineseveN]

"
I note that a lot of the negative responses come from parts of the country where rights are, shall we say, "limited". Perhaps some posters speak of what might happen in their own state, without knowledge of the law in the state where the poster lives. Might be worth a look-see before jumping to conclusions.

I live in a rather free state, and I still think this was a bad move.

Conversely, if this had happened to me, if I were a pool boy and some tacticoool mallninja jumped out at me with a gun, you can bet your keister that I'd be slipping toward cover and bringing my .45 into the play. One of us would have been DRT, how is that a good thing? Dead dogs don't bark.

 

[STAGE 2]

please tell me what state permits you to point a gun or force someone to lay down given the circumstances captain mike explained.

There isn't one. However there is no law that prohibits captain mike from carrying a firearm on his own property. Furthermore what he did in telling the guy to go prone would not be considered "assault". As someone with a legal background let me be the first to say that this would be one of the biggest reaches in history if a local DA decided to do anything. The same goes for any civil action on the pool guys part.

Yes, buy contracting with the pool company mike has made themselves and their representatives invitees on to the property. This does not give them complete freedom to go when and where they choose. By not properly identifying himself and probably not complying with company procedure he created a situation in which he could easily be objectively considered a tresspasser.

For what its worth I probably would have handled the situation differently as in wait a wee bit longer to better ascertain the situation. The again this has happened to my family as well, and it turned out the guy was a transient and responsible for several neighborhood break-ins. Pops did the same thing and had him prone till the police arrrived. I'm inclined to think the "running with expletives" approach would have just scared him away to continue his illegal activities.