Otherguy Overby
member
Phyphor said:
What I'd love to find at Radio Shack: Motion activated Claymores with a secure remote to turn them on and off. I'd by several dozen. A rebate would be nice, too.
Shoot, shovel and shut up!
Drew down on a Stranger in My Back Yard
- Thread starter CAPTAIN MIKE
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What I'd love to find at Radio Shack: Motion activated Claymores with a secure remote to turn them on and off. I'd by several dozen. A rebate would be nice, too.
Shoot, shovel and shut up!
NineseveN said:
First off I hope you’re joking. If you are on someone else’s property unannounced and the property owner investigates with the tools of self protection he deems necessary and you draw down on them you would be in a world of trouble (how can you even attempt to justify that statement when you seemed to think the owner of the property shouldn't be drawing a weapon).
Secondly, Windows are not bullet proof. I would not have done what Capt. Mike did, but I don't have a large privacy fence. If I did I would get a gun and either cal the cops and then challenge him (and let him know 5-0 was en route). Or if I thought something was going to go down (IF I thought he saw me or he looked like he was trying to immediately enter I would do exactly what Capt. Mike did.
As for the letter of the law, in a situation like that I would rather have done something that may skirt the edge of the law and have the time to wonder if I did the right thing, rather than deliberate for a few minutes about the law and wait to take a round through the window.
Good Lord, I *swear* that it seems as if some folks are just looking for the slightest reason to legally put another man in the ground.
Think about this - Broad daylight, unknown guy, apparantly unarmed, in your backyard walking away from the house toward the pool which it appears is cleaned on a regular basis. What's he gonna do? Steal your blow up Shamu floaties? I really doubt that Don Guido would send a hit man armed with a pool filter to take you out.
Quick! Don the level 3, unholster your Kimber, unleash White Fang then do a forward somersault through your backdoor and take cover behind the hot tub, draw a bead on the counterfeit Pool Guy, COM, and in a command voice yell "Put down the net! Step away from the net!"
Sorry folks, this just sounds like something out of a Chevy Chase movie...
Biker
Think about this - Broad daylight, unknown guy, apparantly unarmed, in your backyard walking away from the house toward the pool which it appears is cleaned on a regular basis. What's he gonna do? Steal your blow up Shamu floaties? I really doubt that Don Guido would send a hit man armed with a pool filter to take you out.
Quick! Don the level 3, unholster your Kimber, unleash White Fang then do a forward somersault through your backdoor and take cover behind the hot tub, draw a bead on the counterfeit Pool Guy, COM, and in a command voice yell "Put down the net! Step away from the net!"
Sorry folks, this just sounds like something out of a Chevy Chase movie...
Biker
taliv said:
Yes, but what mike did was not deadly force. Drawing down on someone is not legally considered to be deadly force. If he would have shot at him or shot him then yes it would be completely unjustified. However, mikes actions were perfectly legal in this case.
STAGE 2 said:
I don't think the question at hand was whether this was legal or not, but rather did he take extreme measures? If I saw someone walking through my back yard, my first thought would be LOCKDOWN! I wouldn't make my presence known, but ensure all the doors are locked, have my 9 in my hands and watch what he does. If he attempts entry into my domain, then the justification would be there to draw, otherwise hes just a free grazer.
NineseveN
member
Raph84 said:
Simple Trespassing is not a crime of violence. It is not an act of aggression, it is, in most cases dealing with someone's yard, a simple crime worthy of a slap on the wrist at best.
If you answer a non-threat with violence, you might beget violence upon yourself.
If I am doing my job during the daytime, even if I did something wrong though easily permissible depending on the company I work for and some excited person comes rushing out at me, (a pool guy) witha gun and sends their dog at me, what am I supposed to do, stand there and take the chance that he is not some nut and will shoot me? This is exactly why you don't come out of your home armed to escalate a situation without knowing or having a reasonable degree of certainty that the person represent an iminnet threat. Remember, this pool guy was new, he did not know the homeowner, the homeowner did not know him.
If you guys saw some kids walk up on to your front porch, dressed like gangbangers, at 2:00PM in the afternoon, would you dive through the window, do a roll to one knee and cover them with the Remington 870 you just racked mid air?
You know what, ignore all of that other crap; the bottom line is,
If I am armed, whether or not I think I am in the wrong in what I was doing or have done, if you bring force on me when I have not brought force on you, you will be shot repeatedly, period. If that gets me dead or jailed, so be it. The OP escalated the situation by coming out of the home and confronting the pool guy when there was not even a shred of credible evidence that the pool guy represented a threat.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I'm surprised Captain Mike has made us wait this long. 
NineseveN
member
STAGE 2 said:
I could be wrong but;
Pointing a loaded weapon at another human being is considered deadly force in some states, or at least an escalation of force, am I not right about that?
Mad Chemist
Member
Biker said:Good Lord, I *swear* that it seems as if some folks are just looking for the slightest reason to legally put another man in the ground.
Think about this - Broad daylight, unknown guy, apparantly unarmed, in your backyard walking away from the house toward the pool which it appears is cleaned on a regular basis. What's he gonna do? Steal your blow up Shamu floaties? I really doubt that Don Guido would send a hit man armed with a pool filter to take you out.
Quick! Don the level 3, unholster your Kimber, unleash White Fang then do a forward somersault through your backdoor and take cover behind the hot tub, draw a bead on the counterfeit Pool Guy, COM, and in a command voice yell "Put down the net! Step away from the net!"
Sorry folks, this just sounds like something out of a Chevy Chase movie...
Biker
"Fletch" or "Spies Like Us"?
I'm with you on this one Biker.
This is a common sentiment I encounter here.
1) GG has an encounter with an unknown subject.
2) Said GG immediately defaults to his firearm.
3) GG still believes he's the goog guy and perfectly justified in his actions.
4) He posts the encounter on THR expecting praise and accalades.
5) The well reasoned responses are usually not what he expected.
Anyone concerned about this type of scenario would do well to check out a thread over at TPI titled "Managing Unknown Contacts" by SouthNarc, it's very informative.
JH
Johnny_Yuma
Member
"I was afraid for my life, Your Honor"
and that's why I left the relative safety of my house and confronted a stranger in the back yard
If that doesn't sound silly enough how about "and when he wouldn't lay down, THAT's when I shot him, Detective."
Don't be surprised if you end up cleaning your own pool for awhile, dude.
JY
and that's why I left the relative safety of my house and confronted a stranger in the back yard
If that doesn't sound silly enough how about "and when he wouldn't lay down, THAT's when I shot him, Detective."
Don't be surprised if you end up cleaning your own pool for awhile, dude.
JY
P95loser said:
Originally yes, but then someone else brought the legal issue into it.
NineseveN said:
It depends upon the particular law of the county/state. If it specifically speaks to this situation by saying, "deadly force includes drawing down on or brandishing a firearm" then yes. However is the law is silent then drawing is not considered deadly force. Hitting someone with a tire iron is deadly force. Holding one is not. The same applies to firearms.
Johnny_Yuma
Member
Excellent points, Mad Chemist
A guy hires someone to clean his pool and then is apparently scared out of his wits when someone shows up to.... clean the pool. Some of us here at THR are just itching to have an encounter and almost seem to set them up.
Mad Chemist said:"Fletch" or "Spies Like Us"?
I'm with you on this one Biker.
This is a common sentiment I encounter here.
1) GG has an encounter with an unknown subject.
2) Said GG immediately defaults to his firearm.
3) GG still believes he's the goog guy and perfectly justified in his actions.
4) He posts the encounter on THR expecting praise and accalades.
5) The well reasoned responses are usually not what he expected.
Anyone concerned about this type of scenario would do well to check out a thread over at TPI titled "Managing Unknown Contacts" by SouthNarc, it's very informative.
JH
A guy hires someone to clean his pool and then is apparently scared out of his wits when someone shows up to.... clean the pool. Some of us here at THR are just itching to have an encounter and almost seem to set them up.
Threatening someone with a tire iron can get you a trip to the Crossbar Motel. Now, maybe I'm just the sensitive type, but if you cover a man with your muzzle while ordering him to chew dirt instead of clean your pool, you are commiting assault.STAGE 2 said:
Where did a threat from the pool guy come in? Of any kind that justified the use of deadly force or the threat there of?
Whatever happened to common sense?
Biker
palerider1
member
your lucky you didnt get arrested and lose your pistol permit. i go to peoples houses all the time to do work and always ring the doorbell first. sometimes the doorbell doesnt work, or the people are in the shower, or doing laundry in the basement. not trying to slam you my friend , but if you pulled a pistol out on me i would have called the police and had you thrown in jail. you shouldnt own a handgun if you act like that. your only allowed to shoot somebody if you are in absolute danger of losing your life to them, and you never pull your piece unless you plan on using it. just walking back there with you holster exposed should have given him the message. now if someone were to walk into your house unnanounced thats a different thing, then you pull it out to use it if you have to. if the guy tried anything you could have easily drawn in less than 2 seconds, and if you carry your kimber cocked and locked could have fired in less than a second. sorry if this sounds harsh, but that was an extremely bad and dangerous act you committed. you got lucky and hopefully you learned something from this and never let it happen again. after all, its not the wild west anymore.
respectfully yours
respectfully yours
Hi All-
My sentiments are identical to Biker and Johnny Yuma in this thread.
It's also possible that the "locked" gate wasn't secured...but even wide open because the kids were playing in the yard earlier that morning. Who knows? The simple fact-of-the-matter is that Captain Mike went out of his way to use his firearm to have a serious confrontation.
~ Blue Jays ~
My sentiments are identical to Biker and Johnny Yuma in this thread.
It's also possible that the "locked" gate wasn't secured...but even wide open because the kids were playing in the yard earlier that morning. Who knows? The simple fact-of-the-matter is that Captain Mike went out of his way to use his firearm to have a serious confrontation.
~ Blue Jays ~
if we're lucky, capt mike's just performing some sort of elaborate troll/social experiment here, and his little minature reinactment of Shock and Awe was entirely fabricated. it would explain his silence in this thread. (although, an equally plausible explanation is lack of internet access at the county pokey)
Pilot said:I just checked Captain Mike's Bio and he indicates he is an attorney and CCW instructor.
Which is why I feel confident that he not only acted well within the bounds of the law(for his location) but also made sure his response made sense tactically.
The move may have been gutsy, but it was appropriate.
Mad Chemist said:
Mad Chemist, could you please post the link to the site? I would be very interested in reading the thread. Tried google; tons of hits on SouthNarc but none that bring up that thread on TPI. By the way, what does TPI stand for?
Cosmoline
Member
taliv said:
.
I think it's perfectly reasonably to threaten deadly force until you're sure the trespasser is going to leave. If a stranger jumps your fence, it's reasonable to assume he's up to no good.
I'm sorry, folks. But some stranger JUMPING THE FENCE and roaming the back yard warrants a drawn piece in the real world. Maybe you people live in little suburban enclaves where nothing bad ever happens. Where I've lived, a fence jumper is much more likely to be a highly dangerous crack head or armed felon than a pool man. You throw down and you DO NOT ROLL THE DICE. If he's just an innocent, it's easy enough to clear the situation up. If he's come to kill you and you've held back, you'd best make peace with your dear and fluffy lord. It takes only a few seconds for a crackhead or tweaker to stick a shiv in your belly over backyard distances. Unless your Bob Munden, you won't be able to draw a CCW in time.
Maybe just wandering onto an unfenced, unmarked lot. But jumping a fence without warning is a lot more than simple trespassing. It's reasonable to infer that the person is attempting a more serious crime.
Sean85746
Member
Pebcac said:
Yeah...what he said. I personally NEVER shoot someone for cleaning my pool or mowing my lawn (unless the prick uses a leaf blower, then he's MINE!).
Phyphor
Member
Biker said:Good Lord, I *swear* that it seems as if some folks are just looking for the slightest reason to legally put another man in the ground.
Think about this - Broad daylight, unknown guy, apparantly unarmed, in your backyard walking away from the house toward the pool which it appears is cleaned on a regular basis. What's he gonna do? Steal your blow up Shamu floaties? I really doubt that Don Guido would send a hit man armed with a pool filter to take you out.
Quick! Don the level 3, unholster your Kimber, unleash White Fang then do a forward somersault through your backdoor and take cover behind the hot tub, draw a bead on the counterfeit Pool Guy, COM, and in a command voice yell "Put down the net! Step away from the net!"
Sorry folks, this just sounds like something out of a Chevy Chase movie...
Biker
Gotta say ditto to that. It seems to me that many are more concerned with showing how much of a badass they can be than actually defending their home (not saying anyone in this thread is like that, but you see the type all over the 'net.) Instead of a simple "excuse me, who're you and what're you doing here?" from cover/concealment (which will suffice for the most part, in broad daylight, ) we get "I loaded up and got ready for war. "
I just don't see a single robber trying to play it off like that..... at least, not unarmed...
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