Drew down on a Stranger in My Back Yard

[Cosmoline]

Yup 280, hand in hip pocket, ready to draw smoothly (bobbed hammer) and no one is the wiser - or evacuating their bowels.
Biker

On the street? Sure. Absolutely. In a fenced back yard confronting a jumper you don't know, with no uniform and no notice? I'd advocate getting a rifle and having it leveled at the fellow. It's SOP out in the Mat-Su. I've had rifles aimed at me before when I have to find a man on his land. I don't take it personal. I just yell "hello the cabin" and raise my hands high. Their land, their rules.

 

[ID_shooting]

I could care less if the wole neighborhood tromped through my back yard, I am still not busting out the back door with the AK shouting "KILL 'EM ALL, LET GOD SORT THEM OUT!"

Sorry, if you people live life so dang paranoid that you have to draw on and ground every person that steps foot onto your property, you need to re-evaluate your ability to resposibly carry a firearm. Sorry if that is harsh, but gimme a break here.

Do you also draw down on some one who cuts you off? Why not, the may commit vehicular assult on you. How about a jay walker, he might be a distraction for some clandestin attack. God forbid some little old lady tries to pass you on the street carrying an umbrella. The is a fairly deadly weapon she has there.

:banghead:

 

[Biker]

On the street? Sure. Absolutely. In a fenced back yard confronting a jumper you don't know, with no uniform and no notice? I'd advocate getting a rifle and having it leveled at the fellow. It's SOP out in the Mat-Su. I've had rifles aimed at me before when I have to find a man on his land. I don't take it personal. I just yell "hello the cabin" and raise my hands high. Their land, their rules.

Seriously Cosmo, big difference in the terrain and situation. Capt Mike could see the guy in broad daylight walking toward his pool (apparantly unarmed) and he regularly had his pool cleaned. C'mon man, no need to go Captain Courageous on Pool Guy.
In a case like this, you can be adequately ready and protected and still do a safe recon without going Rambutt on a poor SOB just trying to make a living.
Misunderstandings happen and a little common sense goes a long way.
Biker

 

[308win]

last week my wife calls me and says two guys came to the door and said they were with the phone company and would like to do some digging in the back yard. She asked for ID and they replied they had none and she refused them entry. I told her to call the cops and she did. The cop said they were getting alot of these calls and when they checked with the phone company they were told the phone co was using contract labor and they did not have ID. At least the folks on our street were on the ball and calling a potential problem in......chris3

You don't suppose that contract labor didn't have ID because they didn't have ID do you? Around here, the cable company often uses contractors to bury cable and they always have ID. Maybe a call to the INS is in order.

 

[Phyphor]

I think...

I would probably keep a gun with me, if someone jumped into my back yard.... and watch out the back. Now, if Sherlock decided to approach the house, I'd get cover and keep watching, upon attempting to enter, homeboy is gonna suddenly get some new ventilation.

But really, who is going to expose themselves to a direct attack by a tweaker/crackhead jumping their fence? If you're in your house, and you challenge him, he's gonna have to run across the yard, get inside, figure out just where you are, and then get you. You'd have the advantage of home turf. (Depending on the situation, of course..if you're out back and the sucker lands in the yard 10 feet from you, you're probably screwed, )

Once again, ain't nuthin' wrong with being armed, but getting set to blow some schmuck away who's actually doing his job? If you're that paranoid, then you really need to make arrangements with your pool cleaner company to call ahead before coming out. That way, if someone shows up in your back yard (with no preceeding phonecall!), you might just be warranted covering them with your piece.

 

[torpid]

Remember that everyone that comes on your property could be a potential murderer solely there to fiendishly savage you and yours, but the odds are well over 99.99% that they actually aren't there to harm you at all, so perhaps a little bit of "wait and see" from your window before charging forth to righteously hold them at gunpoint may just be prudent.

Heck, it might even turn out to be your new pool guy.

.

 

[taliv]

THR-bot: "What caliber for pool cleaners?"

 

[STAGE 2]

Threatening someone with a tire iron can get you a trip to the Crossbar Motel. Now, maybe I'm just the sensitive type, but if you cover a man with your muzzle while ordering him to chew dirt instead of clean your pool, you are commiting assault.
Where did a threat from the pool guy come in? Of any kind that justified the use of deadly force or the threat there of?
Whatever happened to common sense?
Biker

Common sense is one thing and the law is... well unfortunately another. Threatening with a tire iron is of course assault, when you do it in a particular manner in PUBLIC. A person's backyard is not considered in public. Furthermore, assuming mike did this with a semi cool head, it cannot be considered assault. Assault requires an intent to harm. Again, you may think that he overreacted, and maybe that is the case, but there just ain't a legal issue here to quarrel about. If mike is in fact an attorney then there are now 2 of us with law degrees that agree with the legality of his actions.

 

[Biker]

THR-bot: "What caliber for pool cleaners?"

Jus' haaaaad ta do it, didn't Ya?

Biker

 

[Cosmoline]

Seriously Cosmo, big difference in the terrain and situation. Capt Mike could see the guy in broad daylight walking toward his pool (apparantly unarmed) and he regularly had his pool cleaned. C'mon man, no need to go Captain Courageous on Pool Guy.
In a case like this, you can be adequately ready and protected and still do a safe recon without going Rambutt on a poor SOB just trying to make a living.
Misunderstandings happen and a little common sense goes a long way.
Biker

He also knew that:

--The man had no uniform
--The man was a stranger
--The man had jumped his fence
--The man had no obvious pool cleaning equipment.

From the account, there appeared no way of knowing what the man was. So it's not a question of throwing down on a pool cleaner. It's a question of throwing down on a fence hopping stranger UNTIL YOU FIGURE OUT why he's there. Big difference.

 

[Cosmoline]

Remember that everyone that comes on your property could be a potential murderer solely there to fiendishly savage you and yours, but the odds are well over 99.99% that they actually aren't there to harm you at all, so perhaps a little bit of "wait and see" from your window before charging forth to righteously hold them at gunpoint may just be prudent.

Heck, it might even turn out to be your new pool guy.

.

This goes back to my "CONTROL YOUR PROPERTY" thread. If you let yahoos come and go on your property, then you're right you have no business drawing on them. But in this case the door was closed and he had not given any permission for the man to come into his back yard.

You people who let contractors, strangers and whoever else wander around your land because you think 99.999% of them mean no harm are asking for a hard lesson.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I just checked Captain Mike's Bio and he indicates he is an attorney and CCW instructor.

That's why I think this is just an exercise for him. He usually makes a lot more sense in his posts

He's dragging it out a bit long though....

 

[torpid]

You people who let contractors, strangers and whoever else wander around your land because you think 99.999% of them mean no harm are asking for a hard lesson.

I just don't rush out to point the deadly end of a loaded firearm at them.

.

 

[orionengnr]

cosmo

thank you.

 

[Cosmoline]

I just don't rush out to point the deadly end of a loaded firearm at them.

.

If they're a fence jumper on your property, without notice or identification, it's not a bad idea to be ready for trouble. If you're going to assume every stranger who jumps over your fence with no notice is a friend, why bother to have a firearm at all?

 

[Biker]

If they're a fence jumper on your property, without notice or identification, it's not a bad idea to be ready for trouble. If you're going to assume every stranger who jumps over your fence with no notice is a friend, why bother to have a firearm at all?

It's not an 'either or' proposition, Cosmo, and the intimation that you don't need a firearm unless you intend to draw down on a fence jumper just doesn't make sense.
The most valuable tool anyone of us has is instinct combined with common sense. It's entirely possible to be 'ready for trouble' without drawing down on everyone you're not familiar with. Terrain and situation, Friend...
Biker

 

[ID_shooting]

Well, under Idaho code he would be in deep doo doo.

http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=180330003.K

http://www3.state.id.us/cgi-bin/newidst?sctid=180330004.K

 

[Cosmoline]

It's not an 'either or' proposition, Cosmo, and the intimation that you don't need a firearm unless you intend to draw down on a fence jumper just doesn't make sense.
The most valuable tool anyone of us has is instinct combined with common sense. It's entirely possible to be 'ready for trouble' without drawing down on everyone you're not familiar with. Terrain and situation, Friend...
Biker

And if you're going to challenge a fence jumper in your back yard, as suggested here, drawing is a good idea.

I take it in Idaho you're not allowed to aim a firearm at a trespassing stranger in your living room unless you can see a deadly weapon on him?

Better knock ID off the list of gun-friendly states.

 

[torpid]

If they're a fence jumper on your property, without notice or identification, it's not a bad idea to be ready for trouble.

I agree wholeheartedly with you here.

It's just that "being ready" does not equate "put them in the crosshairs".

There is a very useful area between "sadly murdered homeowner" and "paranoid trigger happy homeowner" which is measured common sense observation if the opportunity permits.

In this situation CAPTAIN MIKE was not about to be assassinated through his kitchen window by the poolman, and he was inside his home with a gun, a dog, and a phone. There was no need to put the pool guy at the hot end of a .45, and there was no tactically sound reason to charge forth and meet the threat nose to nose before dialing 911.

.

 

[Biker]

And if you're going to challenge a fence jumper in your back yard, as suggested here, drawing is a good idea.

I take it in Idaho you're not allowed to aim a firearm at a trespassing stranger in your living room unless you can see a deadly weapon on him?

You're getting ridiculous now, Friend. Guess I'll bow out.
Biker

 

[Cosmoline]

You're getting ridiculous now, Friend. Guess I'll bow out.
Biker

I'm just answering the quoted code provisions.

 

[Geno]

Ode to Common Sense

There once was man from Nantucket.
He pulled out a gun and he snuck up,
on a poor pool cleaner of questionable demeanor,
then he made him lay down and eat dirt!

Anyone else want to submit Captain Mike for the “Mr. Rogers’ Friendly Neighbor Award”?

Doc2005

 

[Cosmoline]

I agree wholeheartedly with you here.

It's just that "being ready" does not equate "put them in the crosshairs".

It does if you're going to confront them. Calling 911 and hiding in the house is one option, but it's not the one I would choose. It's supposed to be your fenced property. Maybe in some states that no longer means anything and people are allowed to freely hop fences and check out your back yard.

 

[torpid]

I've found that "Can I help you?" spoken safely unseen from cover works just as well as "FREEZE! ON THE GROUND!" with strangers on my property.

They usually look around confused while giving me their story, then I either tell them to move along- sorry not interested, or I observe them from safety while the do the work they showed up to do (yes, I know the cautionary stories of fake "official" utility men, etc.).

Never had to run at them and draw down.


.

 

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

Some Further Thoughts

The stranger in the backyard was a complete stranger to any of us and he was lurking unannounced on our property near the back entry door in an area where home invasions have repeatedly resulted in seriouisly or fatally injured homeowners.

There was nothing in his behavior or actions or manner of dress to indicate he was a pool guy. Remember he was a stranger who had jumped our 6-foot high locked gate and didn't have a neon sign announcing his occupation and intentions. Heck if he had just bothered to announce himself in the first place or wore some kind of 'pool service' shirt or even brandished some pool cleaning equipment or a pool service company ID, it might have been obvious. But he did none of that. That's why he seemed like a threat, not a mere trespasser.

What he did do was to "break and enter" our property -- by illegally and surreptitiously and without permission-- crossing over a 6-foot high locked gated fence and into our property -- which constitutes burglary. From the side and back, he may have been able to enter further without a neighbor seeing him. His presence was only discovered by mere chance.

Remember that Burglary by its nature is an 'inherently dangerous felony' and armed response is justified, though no one looks forward to it. The adrenaline dump on both sides was not a particularly pleasant experience for either of us. I was scared but I couldn't wait several minutes for law enforcement to eventually arrive. Bottom line: threat posed by burglar confronted, identity established, no one bitten, no one hurt.

No one is perfect. No matter what actions any of us take, there's always other alternatives. But the safety of your family is not something to take lightly. And when you think a threat is no longer "outside" your property but within mere seconds of taking you by surprise, you take those actions you believe necessary for safety at the moment, not the ones that might later seem preferred when there's time to calmly think it over and consider what else might have been done. In the PSRK, if a stranger is breaking and entering (which is burglary) the homeowner is supposed to politely point to the gun-free zone sign, and then take the burglar milk and cookies so he's comfortable while everyone waits calmly 8 minutes for the cops to arrive on scene.

Monday morning quarterbacks who weren't even there always seem to find it quite easy to second-guess actions that take place in a matter of seconds, that's for sure. This time was no different.