Federal .44 Special LSWCHP

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Well I went ahead and ordered two boxes of the 190 grain Buffalo Bore .44 special soft cast LSWCHP loads.

I plan to shoot a box, carefully examine the fired cases and how the gun takes them, and noting everything like accuracy etc. etc. I'll keep the other box for carry, IF the first box shoots well.

Buffalo Bore approves of this load in the new Bulldogs, as long as it is used in relatively limited numbers. I contacted Charter Arms and they did not say not to use BB ammo in the Bulldogs. These two things make me confident that it will be okay, and will be the most effective .44 special defense load out there.

Will let everyone know how it goes.
 
Nice article. Looks like a good performer, though I haven't been able to find any for sale in the time I've been looking, which had been over a month.

Interesting to note that the Cor Bon load, using a 200 grain bullet, is going faster than the Buff Bore load I bought with a lighter 190 grain bullet, both from a 3" barrel... so how is the Corbon load safe to shoot, and the Buffalo Bore load not???

Doesn't make sense to me. Anyway, if corbon wants to make a run of this load, I'll buy some. Until then, I'll use the Buffalo Bore load.
 
Nathan Detroit
Thanks for those links.

Cooldill
You mentioned Buffalo Bore, I like their ammo although my experience is limited to the .38 Special & 9mm, I've had GREAT results with both.

I seem to remember reading that they offer a 200gr wadcutter for defense in the .44 Special? I'll go on their web. & see if they do offer that loading. It might make a great defense load?

Just got back from Buffalo Bore web www.buffalobore.com they do make a 200gr WC it's supposed to be 1000fps & it's rated for all/any .44 Special including Charter Arms. This is right off their web.

They are in 20 round boxes & I hope everyone is sitting down...... @ $ 40.34 per box. wow!:what:
 
I would recommend the speer gold dots, you can usually find them in the blazer series of ammo or even Georgia arms sells a version
I do NOT condone the winchester Silvertip at least in this caliber due to anemic performance in my testing.
 
From Buffalo Bore website: see end for Charter Arms info

Heavy .44 Special Ammo - 190 gr. Soft Cast HP-GC (1,150fps) - 20 Round Box

PRESS RELEASE FOR BUFFALO BORE 190gr. SOFT CAST HP-GC HEAVY 44 SPL (ITEM 14C)

Our purpose in developing this HEAVY 44 SPL load was to duplicate our renowned 38 SPL +P 158 gr. soft cast HP @ 1000 fps out of a 2 inch revolver, (Item 20A) but with a 190gr. 44 caliber bullet. This load was designed SPECIFICALLY for defensive use against humans. You can see our below velocities fired from my real world stock revolvers. We use only real world firearms in developing our published velocities and feel it is dishonest to use extra long laboratory test barrels that give false high velocities that over-the-counter carry guns cannot duplicate. You need to know what your ammo is doing in the real world, not a lab.
1. 1156 fps - Ruger Super Blackhawk, 5.5 inch barrel
2. 1098 fps - S&W MT Gun, 4 Inch barrel
3. 1046 fps - S&W mod. 696, 3 inch barrel
4. 1057 fps - S&W mod. 396, 3 inch barrel
5. 1005 fps - S&W mod. 296, 2 inch barrel

We developed this bullet to be soft (6 BHN) enough to mushroom at impact speeds around 750 fps, yet we wanted it hard enough (pure lead is 4 BHN) that it would not lead a normal revolver barrel. This bullet accomplishes both requirements. Depending on impact velocities, expect about 18 inches of penetration in living mammalian tissues, which should give ample penetration at bad angles to disable even very large men.

This bullet was also designed with a special crimp groove and the case mouth is heavily crimped and this bullet will NOT jump crimp in the lightweight alloy revolvers, provided you rotate the unfired rounds and thus do not expose unfired rounds to the recoil of more than about 10 firings.

We are using a flash suppressed powder so you won't become blinded by your own gunfire in the likely event you drop the hammer in a low-light defensive situation.

This ammunition is for use in ALL 44 SPL and 44 MAG. firearms except the Charter Arms Bull Dog. No, this ammo won't blow up your Bull Dog, but if you shoot more than a few hundred rounds of this ammo in a Bull Dog, the gun will get looser than it already was, will go out of "time" and stop working.
 
Zendude said:
From Buffalo Bore website: see end for Charter Arms info

Heavy .44 Special Ammo - 190 gr. Soft Cast HP-GC (1,150fps) - 20 Round Box

PRESS RELEASE FOR BUFFALO BORE 190gr. SOFT CAST HP-GC HEAVY 44 SPL (ITEM 14C)

Our purpose in developing this HEAVY 44 SPL load was to duplicate our renowned 38 SPL +P 158 gr. soft cast HP @ 1000 fps out of a 2 inch revolver, (Item 20A) but with a 190gr. 44 caliber bullet. This load was designed SPECIFICALLY for defensive use against humans. You can see our below velocities fired from my real world stock revolvers. We use only real world firearms in developing our published velocities and feel it is dishonest to use extra long laboratory test barrels that give false high velocities that over-the-counter carry guns cannot duplicate. You need to know what your ammo is doing in the real world, not a lab.
1. 1156 fps - Ruger Super Blackhawk, 5.5 inch barrel
2. 1098 fps - S&W MT Gun, 4 Inch barrel
3. 1046 fps - S&W mod. 696, 3 inch barrel
4. 1057 fps - S&W mod. 396, 3 inch barrel
5. 1005 fps - S&W mod. 296, 2 inch barrel

We developed this bullet to be soft (6 BHN) enough to mushroom at impact speeds around 750 fps, yet we wanted it hard enough (pure lead is 4 BHN) that it would not lead a normal revolver barrel. This bullet accomplishes both requirements. Depending on impact velocities, expect about 18 inches of penetration in living mammalian tissues, which should give ample penetration at bad angles to disable even very large men.

This bullet was also designed with a special crimp groove and the case mouth is heavily crimped and this bullet will NOT jump crimp in the lightweight alloy revolvers, provided you rotate the unfired rounds and thus do not expose unfired rounds to the recoil of more than about 10 firings.

We are using a flash suppressed powder so you won't become blinded by your own gunfire in the likely event you drop the hammer in a low-light defensive situation.

This ammunition is for use in ALL 44 SPL and 44 MAG. firearms except the Charter Arms Bull Dog. No, this ammo won't blow up your Bull Dog, but if you shoot more than a few hundred rounds of this ammo in a Bull Dog, the gun will get looser than it already was, will go out of "time" and stop working.
Click to expand...
The op has already stated he spoke to buffalo bore regarding that matter.
 
Thanks, Barry.

Like I said, Buffalo Bore was quick to inform me that this load, and in fact all of their .44 special loads, are OK to shoot in new production Charter Arms Bulldogs in limited numbers. Here is the reply I got from Tim Sundles (the owner of Buffalo Bore) on the subject:

First, none of our 44 SPL loads will blow a Bull Dog up, so they are all
safe to fire in the Bull Dog. However, the older bull Dogs are not near the
quality of those made with the current ownership of Charter Arms, so our
loads can shoot the older Bull Dogs loose, very quickly, but then, those
older Bull Dogs start out pretty loose right from the box. If you want to
shoot a limited amount of our current 190gr. loads through a Bull Dog made
in the last decade or so, go ahead. Just do not plink with them as a few
hundred rounds can loosen up even a newer Bull Dog, which is why we made a
slightly less powerful, Bull Dog specific load, which as you pointed out,
will over-penetrate on most humans with the typical frontal shot.

Tim
Click to expand...

So, as you can clearly see, these rounds won't hurt a new Bulldog so long as you don't shoot a great deal of them. Buffalo Bore puts the "not for Charter Arms" disclaimer on their webpage simply to keep someone from knocking an old Bulldog out of time with repeated and heavy firing of their ammo. Like Mr. Sundles says, Buffalo Bore does make that full wadcutter load for the Bulldogs... but I don't want that kind of penetration out of a self defense load, and would greatly prefer a hollow point for increased wounding.

I ordered a total of 40 rounds of the stuff for my Bulldog. 20 rounds for testing purposes, 20 rounds for carry. :cool:
 
I'm wondering if the Fed 200gr lead SWC HP that Cooldll mentions in his first post wouldn't be close to as good as it gets in a Bulldog?

I still want to test the Speer GD in .44 Special, but I don't have ballistic gel, only water filled 1/2gal mild cartons.....:confused:
Still they are consistant, repeatable, & cheap! They may not show what a load will do in the real world, but they will show what different loads do in water?
Best I can do with limited resources!:(
 
The Federal load will probably only clock 600-650fps from the Bulldogs short barrel. Buffalo Bore claims theirs is tested in real world guns and clocks 1000fps at the Bulldog barrel length.
 
Frank V said:
I'm wondering if the Fed 200gr lead SWC HP that Cooldll mentions in his first post wouldn't be close to as good as it gets in a Bulldog?

I still want to test the Speer GD in .44 Special, but I don't have ballistic gel, only water filled 1/2gal mild cartons.....:confused:
Still they are consistant, repeatable, & cheap! They may not show what a load will do in the real world, but they will show what different loads do in water?
Best I can do with limited resources!:(
Click to expand...
Frank, from my research, while it seems the Federal LSWCHP in my OP should work well from the Bulldog... it appears that they do not expand very well, even out of longer barreled guns. Just not enough velocity, as is the case with many .44 special HP loads.

I do, however, believe the wide Buffalo Bore 190 grain hollow point that is made from nearly pure lead and moving at 950 FPS or so from a Bulldog should expand very well.

According to UPS tracking, I'll have those 50 rounds of Buffal Bore on Tuesday. Range report to follow very shortly after. I too wish that I could test these in gel, but I live in town and I'm pretty sure the local range wouldn't want me doing gel tests inside LOL!
 
Cooldill

I believe you to be correct. I've chronoed some of the WW silvertips out of an N frame 4" & was surprised that they mostly didn't quite reach 800fps. I think the factories are just afraid of the .44 Special as there are small frames & early lower quality guns out there. Kind of like holding down velocity in the .45-70, some old guns out there.
The Buffalo Bore should work well & they do say they use real live guns not pressure bbls to get their velocities?

As a handloader I can make & do make the .44 Special perform, but won't carry handloads for defense.
I'm reluctant to carry handloads for defense just as are many because of liability. A good shoot should be a good shoot no matter what ammo, but in the real world it just may not be, hence I carry factory ammo.
I'll be staying tuned to hear about your BB ammo.
 
JERRY said:
Cooldill, did you check out the links I posted on TFL?
Click to expand...
Yes, VERY interesting! It does appear the Corbon 200 grain DPX would be a great Bulldog carry load... if only I could find any for sale! :uhoh:

I've been looking for that load for some time. It appears Corbon hasn't made any in a while, and it's all dried up all over the internet. I in fact messaged them asking if they intend to make more, and they said probably as they've had some other requests for it. I'm on the waiting list on various websites, and will snag a few boxes if and when they decide to produce it again.
 
At the risk of being attacked by multiple people on here, I must say this:
If the reason you chose to carry a 44 Special was because it had less recoil, muzzle flash, noise and weight, why then..............

Do so many of you want your 44 Special to outperform a 44 Magnum?:banghead:

It NEVER WILL. OK? Stick with what made the 44 Special "special".
 
dickydalton said:
At the risk of being attacked by multiple people on here, I must say this:
If the reason you chose to carry a 44 Special was because it had less recoil, muzzle flash, noise and weight, why then..............

Do so many of you want your 44 Special to outperform a 44 Magnum?:banghead:

It NEVER WILL. OK? Stick with what made the 44 Special "special".
Click to expand...
And stick with actually reading what we're talking about in our posts.

It's hard to get a good expanding load for the .44 Bulldogs. It requires a well designed bullet with enough velocity out of these short barreled guns. If you know of any .44 special hollow point factory loads that will expand and penetrate well from my .44 special Bulldog, I'm all ears. And yes, that's what I'm looking for... a hollow point. I don't care for the argument "a .44 is already expanded vs a .38", not true. There's some good .38 loads out there that will expand to .60"+ from snub nosed guns. I don't buy it for an instant that a .44 wadcutter is going to be more effective than an expanded .38, but DO believe an expanded .44 will be better than any .38 so long as it penetrates enough.

It's all about getting good ballistic performance from these guns. Nobody's trying to make a .44 magnum.
 
hmmmm. I think Im gonna try some backwards loaded wadcutters in .44 spl, many people use to swear by thing in the .38 so ill have to do an experiment. accuracy will suffer I bet.
 
Barry the Bear said:
hmmmm. I think Im gonna try some backwards loaded wadcutters in .44 spl, many people use to swear by thing in the .38 so ill have to do an experiment. accuracy will suffer I bet.
Click to expand...
You might be pleasantly surprised.... obviously assuming shooting at typical sd distances.
 
Magnums were , your comparing the magnums to the .44 spl , all cooldil wants , and correct me if im wrong is the most effective load possible for his chosen gun , nothing wrong with that.
 
dickydalton

No attack from here!

My reasons for liking the .44 Special are many, a bit lighter gun with a tapered bbl (yes I know the Mountain Gun has a tapered bbl) I like the accuracy, with my loads bit lighter recoil, a ctg. that if I want to can be loaded up pretty hot, (mostly I don't), Guns that reek of an earier era, (snob?) I don't really think so, a ctg. that a lot of others don't use or some even know about, and it's pretty historical, led to the development of the .44 Mag, but then the .44 American & .44 Russian led to the .44 Special. I am VERY happy with my velocity of just under 900fps with the RCBS 44-250-K or the Lyman 429421. I guess after all this I could just say I LIKE IT & I'd pretty well nail it. I grew up reading Mr. Keith & he did a LOT of work with the .44 Special. To me the .44 Special is a Special ctg.
If others choose another I won't be offended, nor will I be under gunned.;)
 
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