Feds Must Hand Over Gun Data, Court Rules in Freedom of Information Act Win for Journalists

[Zahn]

CapnMac, I think we agree. Or at least I agree with you, and I'm not looking for an argument - here or anywhere.

Certainly the press (as a whole) aren't nearly as sharp as they think they are. Any time I have any expertise on the subject of an article in the press I am reminded of that. But that doesn't happen very often because I'm not an expert on very many things.

Thanks for your reasonable responses to this new guy who is probably talking about stuff that is way over his head.

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

I do not claim to be a lawyer and I am not saying I like or agree with the FOIA request, but I now have read this case twice and it seems to me they are talking about agency's and department firearms not personal firearms.

"CIR specifically wants to report on the use in crimes of guns that had at one time been owned by law enforcement agencies."
"CIR argues that ATF can obtain the information requested with a simple query using preexisting close-out codes to sort the FTS database. ATF concedes that the FTS database “includes close-out codes for each trace, including those related to law enforcement and government agencies” and that it could search the FTS database to identify the trace records involving traces back to former law enforcement ownership. "

Law enforcement ownership is referring to department ownership not personal ownership.

 

[rdnktrkr]

All a 4473 has on it is personal information not the information about the gun, correct? If I purchase 10 firearms I only fill out 1 4473. What do the journalists hope to obtain doing this? I would think crooks would prefer to not go to households/fenced-in yards that has firearms. Look at Kennesaw GA where every resident is supposed to have firearms verses communities that forbid them.

 

[CapnMac]

Thanks for your reasonable responses to this new guy who is probably talking about stuff that is way over his head.

Well, that is the charter of this place, to have reasonable discussions between reasonable people. Without regard to where they each fall on the spectrum of Agree and Disagree.

 

[CapnMac]

talking about agency's and department firearms not personal firearms.

That's a key detail, and one that does not appear in the popular press articles, but only in the court opinion.

Because it "reads" very differently if read as LEO owned weapons versus Department-owned weapons.

Which also raises the possibility of an error of editing.

"We" have a common knowledge of how Departments sell off their firearms; whether that is common knowledge beyond our area is subject to question.

So, perhaps, the desired assertion is that LE Departments are involved in crime scenes and leave their firearms strewn about. Whether that's as eye-catching clickbait as an assertion that LEO privately-owned weapons turn up at crime scenes, I cannot access.

Color me surprised that they even bothered to look up data at all, instead of just asserting it out of whole cloth.

 

[paperchaser]

All a 4473 has on it is personal information not the information about the gun, correct? If I purchase 10 firearms I only fill out 1 4473. What do the journalists hope to obtain doing this? I would think crooks would prefer to not go to households/fenced-in yards that has firearms. Look at Kennesaw GA where every resident is supposed to have firearms verses communities that forbid them.

There are many parts of the 4473 which the purchaser does not fill out but the FFL does, such as firearm make, model, etc . We as purchasers don't see that info but the ATF does and you can be sure they will use it IF they had the 4473 in hand. Remember the 4473 is not automatically sent to ATF, yet. Some large companies now submit the 4473 electronically. I am not paranoid but I prefer to
do business with my local, non-connected, gun shop. I shy away from Academy sports, Bass Pro, and others.

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

Unfortunately I no longer trust many (MOST) news agency's, so I do not know what the real purpose of the request is. My speculation is it might has something to do with the defund the police movement.

 

[c1ogden]

I remember that happening in NY. On Long Island IIRC

NY city as well as Rockland and Orange counties also if I remember right.

 

[c1ogden]

There are some inaccurate presumptions here--the request is not for permit holders, nor of "registered weapons."

The request is middling clever--while being a bit nefarious, too.

The Firearms Trace System (FTS) consists solely of weapons recovered during crime investigations. Criminal firearms do not have the same protections as non-criminal ones. So, clever in that such records are not under Congressional protection.

Rather nefarious is specifically asking about crime scene recovered weapons that are traced back to Law Enforcement owners.
The implication seems clear, that either LEO are to be blamed for "throw downs" or that LEO are a source for crime scene guns (whether stolen or provided--neither seems in a good light for LEO).

This "victory for journalists" appears to be an opportunity to smear LEO as ACAB.

You might be right but my first impression was that they were looking at crime guns that had been "misplaced" by law enforcement agencies and wound up in criminal hands. I think it looks like thy are trying to get the agencies to clean up their acts and their personnel before criticizing citizens for not safeguarding and locking up their own guns.