First try at 9mm = Fail

[Howa 9700]

Loaded up 5 different small sample loads to test.......different bullets, different powders. Goal is to find one I like and then stick to it.

Pulled one round from each group just to test and while all fired, 4 or the 5 failed to eject spent brass from the pistol, which is a new Sig p226. Winchester factory range ammo worked fine.

These loads were not to max, but were not start level loads either. Sort of middle of the road.

Where do I start troubleshooting? My first thought is to run a few boxes of factory thru it to confirm it is working well / cycling with that, then go back to the drawing board.

 

[kidneyboy]

1 of the five worked. Increase the load by .1 or .2 and try again. In the meantime run some factory ammo.
ETA Not a failure - a limited success

 

[TomJ]

What if you started with one bullet and one powder? If you let us know what those are we may be able to offer some suggestions.

 

[gwpercle]

Loaded up 5 different small sample loads to test.......different bullets, different powders. Goal is to find one I like and then stick to it.

Pulled one round from each group just to test and while all fired, 4 or the 5 failed to eject spent brass from the pistol, which is a new Sig p226. Winchester factory range ammo worked fine.

These loads were not to max, but were not start level loads either. Sort of middle of the road.

Where do I start troubleshooting? My first thought is to run a few boxes of factory thru it to confirm it is working well / cycling with that, then go back to the drawing board.

Running a few boxes of factory through it is a Great Idea... break it in and get a feel for what it likes .
The 9mm Luger is a "Stinker " to reload ! And I had 40 years experience loading when I started with a Walther P38 .
Most starting loads don't come close to cycling the action ... I began loading at the middle of the data and some guns work best when right at the book maximum loads .
Break your gun in and start loads in the middle of the data ...and Good Luck !
I rather dislike handloading the stinking little bugger, it never wants to co-operate !
Gary

 

[doubleh]

Over the years I have had few fail to completely operate the slide when I used a starting load. Simply increasing the load a little solved the problem every time.

 

[BC17A]

Not uncommon when you're trying to play it safe. Instead of wasting time, powder, primers and projectiles, why not tell us what you're using and learn from those who've already worked out the kinks.

 

[stillquietvoice]

What is your oal, a slightly shorter round increases pressure and may cycle at current loads.

 

[sparkyv]

I agree, upping the load a few tenths of a grain gets my P320 slide cycling happily. The 9mm is my least favorite cartridge to load. The tiny bullets and the tapered case drive me bonkers!

The 9mm Luger is a "Stinker " to reload !

Maybe this will help narrow down the issue.

What if you started with one bullet and one powder?

 

[Atavar]

If you have all your fingers and eyes it wasn’t a fail, it was a learning experience. Look at the fired cases for pressure signs and if there aren’t any increase your load closer to maximum and try again.
Stick with one recipe at a time. Too many variables make it impossible to know what worked. Only change one thing each pass.
A common methodology is to load up a ladder of groups of five with the same case/primer/powder/bullet but increase the charge weight by .1 gn for each group of 5. Then go out and shoot some 5 shot targets and see what works. Check fired cases for pressure signs between groups.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Loaded up 5 different small sample loads to test.......different bullets, different powders. Goal is to find one I like and then stick to it.

Pulled one round from each group just to test and while all fired, 4 or the 5 failed to eject spent brass from the pistol, which is a new Sig p226. Winchester factory range ammo worked fine.

These loads were not to max, but were not start level loads either. Sort of middle of the road.

Where do I start troubleshooting? My first thought is to run a few boxes of factory thru it to confirm it is working well / cycling with that, then go back to the drawing board.

The one that worked is your load.
The other four need tweaking but I really don’t see any failure here. Like @kidneyboy said, limited success, not failure.

 

[JerkyFreak]

Modern 9mm pistols all seem to only cycle reliably when loaded closer to the maximum than the minimum.

As mentioned above, choose a bullet and powder combination, get a reliable load for it and shoot a few hundred rounds. This should build your confidence in your reloading abilities and wear in your pistol.

Then start experimenting with one powder at a time. Makes it less likely that you uses the wrong one... As always, keep good notes.

 

[MikeInOr]

Loaded up 5 different small sample loads to test.......different bullets, different powders. Goal is to find one I like and then stick to it.

Pulled one round from each group just to test and while all fired, 4 or the 5 failed to eject spent brass from the pistol, which is a new Sig p226. Winchester factory range ammo worked fine.

These loads were not to max, but were not start level loads either. Sort of middle of the road.

Where do I start troubleshooting? My first thought is to run a few boxes of factory thru it to confirm it is working well / cycling with that, then go back to the drawing board.

You did it all wrong. You are supposed to get excited about reloading and load ~500 rounds at the starting load in the book... then hang on to them for 30 years until you buy a PC Carbine which will actually cycle them. ...like I did!

Use one powder, one bullet type and load up 3 rounds batches. Load multiple batches with more powder per batcch until you get to 90% of the MAX load. What you are going to find is most your 9mm pistols are going to prefer 90% of max and heavier charges. You are also going to find that your SIG will easily handle 100% max load and even higher because the SIG will shoot +P just fine. But stay at the max book load, there really isn't much need to go higher. Even for my Gold Dot self defense loads I stay at max load.

What you are experiencing is that your loads are too weak to cycle your gun properly.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The SIG 226 is a pretty forgiving pistol, so it shouldn't be too hard to develop a load for it if you stay within it's common range of bullets and proven desirable 9mm powders.

A good starting point is to decide on the bullet weight you want to load. I prefer 125/125gr to 115gr bullets to start...and would save lighter or heavier bullets for when you become more familiar with the cartridge likes and dislikes.

You should also decide if you want to load coated or jacketed bullets. For loaders starting out, I recommend jacketed bullet as it eliminates many seating issues. The cost difference is minimal if you go with RMR in-house bullets

A good powder to start with is Win 231/HP-38...not the best, not the cleanest, but it has a wide operating range when developing a new load. A newer, but more available, powder to start with is Win 244 (product improved 231/HP-38). For 9mm, I personally use N310, N320, Sport Pistol, or Clean Shot

 

[LiveLife]

Loaded up 5 different small sample loads to test.......different bullets, different powders

Wrong approach. That's like grabbing 5 random pants of different brands, sizes, lengths and hoping they fit. Better approach would be to try incremental sizing until you find the one that fits just right in waist size, length and comfort of movement.

Applied to reloading, better to stay with one bullet and powder to conduct full powder work up to determine the "best load" that reliably cycle the slide, extract/eject spent cases and produce smallest groups.

9mm ... is a "Stinker " to reload ! ... Most starting loads don't come close to cycling the action ... I began loading at the middle of the data and some guns work best when right at the book maximum loads

I found this to be true likely from "modern" 9mm pistols rated for +P loads with stiffer recoil springs. And loads that barely cycled the slide of fullsize pistols didn't cycle the slides of compact/subcompact pistols.

Goal is to find one I like and then stick to it.

This is what I do to identify the "most accurate load" - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

• Determine the Max OAL using the barrel - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389
• Determine the longest Working OAL by feeding dummy rounds from magazine
• Using longest Working OAL, conduct powder work up (Reduce charge by .2-.3 gr if using shorter than published OAL)
• Identify the powder charge that reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent case
• Then monitor accuracy trend to determine powder charge that produces smallest groups consistently on repeated range trips
• And if not at max charge, incrementally decrease the OAL to see if group size decreases. If so, use shorter OAL. If not, use longer OAL

A good powder to start with is Win 231/HP-38...not the best, not the cleanest, but it has a wide operating range when developing a new load.

I agree. While there are other powders that can produce smaller groups like Titegroup/Bullseye/WST, etc., W231/HP-38 is good general purpose powder for 9mm with less snappy recoil shock impulse than faster burning powders.

Here's an example of load development with different 115 gr jacketed FMJ/plated RN bullets and W231 I used to develop my 9mm reference load that works well in many different pistols referencing Speer load data - https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/9mm_Luger__115_rev1.pdf

• 9mm 115 gr Speer TMJ RN W231 COL 1.135" Start 4.4 gr (1026fps) - Max 4.9 gr (1133 fps)

• While SAAMI max of 1.169" worked with most 115 gr FMJ/RN bullets, during my testing, I found shorter 1.130"-1.135" Working OAL (OAL range produced with many bullets in my progressive press) produced smaller groups than longer 1.150"-1.160" Working OAL - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...col-for-reference.848462/page-2#post-12249361
• So using 1.130"-1.135" Working OAL, 4.5 gr started to reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent cases
• 4.6 gr produced reliable slide cycling/spent case ejection and started accuracy trend
• 4.7 gr produced smaller groups
• 4.8 gr produced smallest groups and this became my 9mm reference load

 

[drband]

One powder at a time…

 

[LiveLife]

One powder at a time…

And one powder container out on bench at a time ... Don't ask me how I learned this.

 

[JerkyFreak]

And one powder container out on bench at a time ... Don't ask me how I learned this.

I don't need to ask...

 

[cfullgraf]

These loads were not to max, but were not start level loads either. Sort of middle of the road.
.

To learn…

I’d pick one bullet to start with that is the same weight as the Winchester ammunition you have had success with.

Load some ammunition in a ladder test within the published data and see how they perform.

Once you find a charge level and bullet that cycles you gun, you can hone the load to get better accuracy.

Now, you have some knowledge.

If you wish to try different bullets or powders, you have some knowledge of what works and what doesn’t.

Working within published data is not cut and dried. Different guns and different components yield different results but max published loads tend to be the limit of max charges.

Until you have lots of knowledge, stick to published dsta.

 

[AJC1]

If your purpose is holes in paper pick a 115 or 124 rmr match winner and load em up. 4.0 grains of tightgroup works for both and just bump the charge a tenth until you get good function. I don't think you'll have to.

 

[Howa 9700]

OK, these were the loads..........all with CCI 500 primers.........so won't repeat that part. Didn't have the chrony setup, so no velocities to report. All cases new. Loaded about 10 rounds of each, so can keep going on all of them after shooting some factory. Loads with Acc #5 and #7 pretty easy on the hand. Like shooting a 22 auto .

Load 1: Slide was found partially open, spent brass hung

Starline case
Hornady XTP JHP - 124
Acc #5 = 5.5 grains
COAL 1.06

Load 2: Spent brass found in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Acc #5 = 5.5 grains
COAL = 1.040

Load 3: Spent brass in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Acc #7 = 6.3 grains
COAL = 1.050

Load 4: Brass ejected, action cycled normal

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
HS-6 = 6.3 grains
COAL 1.050

Load 5: Spent brass in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Power Pistol = 5.0 grains
COAL 1.050

 

[AJC1]

OK, these were the loads..........all with CCI 500 primers.........so won't repeat that part. Didn't have the chrony setup, so no velocities to report. All cases new. Loaded about 10 rounds of each, so can keep going on all of them after shooting some factory. Loads with Acc #5 and #7 pretty easy on the hand. Like shooting a 22 auto .

Load 1: Slide was found partially open, spent brass hung

Starline case
Hornady XTP JHP - 124
Acc #5 = 5.5 grains
COAL 1.06

Load 2: Spent brass found in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Acc #5 = 5.5 grains
COAL = 1.040

Load 3: Spent brass in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Acc #7 = 6.3 grains
COAL = 1.050

Load 4: Brass ejected, action cycled normal

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
HS-6 = 6.3 grains
COAL 1.050

Load 5: Spent brass in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Power Pistol = 5.0 grains
COAL 1.050

Does the sig have zero taper like the cz??? Why so short. 1.090 was the beginning and end of my 9mm loads.

 

[Tilos]

Loaded up 5 different small sample loads to test.......different bullets, different powders. Goal is to find one I like and then stick to it.

Pulled one round from each group just to test and while all fired, 4 or the 5 failed to eject spent brass from the pistol, which is a new Sig p226. Winchester factory range ammo worked fine.

These loads were not to max, but were not start level loads either. Sort of middle of the road.

Where do I start troubleshooting? My first thought is to run a few boxes of factory thru it to confirm it is working well / cycling with that, then go back to the drawing board.

When I start out with a new gun, I always take it apart the same way I would for a cleaning and lube the normal areas with my favorite lube of choice.
Once I have reassembled the gun, I drop the mag, put on some work gloves, and rack/slingshot the slide a couple hundred times.
That kind-of duplicates shooting a "few boxes of factory" ammo thru it, but costs nothing.

Just something I do before firing a new gun, maybe you could do the racking now instead of spending more money on factory ammo.
If after that, your test loads fail, just up the powder charge(s).
jmo,
.

 

[docbrown]

OK, these were the loads..........all with CCI 500 primers.........so won't repeat that part. Didn't have the chrony setup, so no velocities to report. All cases new. Loaded about 10 rounds of each, so can keep going on all of them after shooting some factory. Loads with Acc #5 and #7 pretty easy on the hand. Like shooting a 22 auto .

Load 1: Slide was found partially open, spent brass hung

Starline case
Hornady XTP JHP - 124
Acc #5 = 5.5 grains
COAL 1.06

Load 2: Spent brass found in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Acc #5 = 5.5 grains
COAL = 1.040

Load 3: Spent brass in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Acc #7 = 6.3 grains
COAL = 1.050

Load 4: Brass ejected, action cycled normal

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
HS-6 = 6.3 grains
COAL 1.050

Load 5: Spent brass in chamber

RMR Case
RMR 124 JHP nuke
Power Pistol = 5.0 grains
COAL 1.050

On that first load, that is actually toward the top of the ladder as far as the load goes. I show 5.7 grains as the max load on Hodgdon's website. So, there should be plenty of "oomph" to cycle the action.

On the last load, I show a max load on a GDHP as 6.4 grains, so if you drop that 10% for a starting load, you should be at about 5.8 grains, so that load is probably a little light at 5 grains. That would explain why the action left the brass in the chamber.

Is this a brand new firearm? If so, have you taken it down to clean and lubricate it? Does it cycle with factory ammo?

If you have not lubricated it, I would start there. Some firearms just like to be run wet.

IMO, Accurate #7 is probably a little slow for 9mm. That being said, their are loads for it, and yours is only .1 grain above the starting load, so, it may just not be a strong enough load. You should be able to find a load that will cycle, but there are better powders (Power Pistol being an excellent choice) to choose from.

Hope you find a load that works. Part of the fun of reloading is testing and evaluating.

 

[9mmepiphany]

OK, these were the loads..........all with CCI 500 primers.........so won't repeat that part. Didn't have the chrony setup, so no velocities to report. All cases new.

Does the sig have zero taper like the cz??? Why so short

1.05" does seem pretty short for the RMR 124gr Nuke. I load the 124gr Matchwinners to 1.114" and it always ran great in my SIGs

Is there a particular reason you're loading the Nukes that short?

 

[9mmepiphany]

• So using 1.130"-1.135" Working OAL, 4.5 gr started to reliably cycle the slide and extract/eject spent cases

• 4.6 gr produced reliable slide cycling/spent case ejection and started accuracy trend

• 4.7 gr produced smaller groups

• 4.8 gr produced smallest groups and this became my 9mm reference load

I may have to revisit my HP-38 load. I was getting reliable function with 4.5gr under a RMR 124gr RN loaded to an OAL of 1.145".

I picked up some RMR 115gr to use in my PCC...only to discover PCC wasn't as much fun as I'd thought...and really don't have a current use for them