Jeff OTMG
Member
I pretty much fly every weekend and so far the only airport that has had the TSA inspectors BEHIND the ticketing area has been in Indy. I ALWAYS fly with firearms, at least two handguns if not more. When the TSA inspector is outside the ticket area it is no problem for me to stand there while they do the search, whether manual or with the CAT Scan machine, wait for the okay and head off to security. I flew out of Indy on Thursday. As usual the bag disappears, the counter clerk calls TSA to let them know that guns are on the way and I wait for the call that everything is okay. I get a call that they want to do a manual inspection and want me to send the keys and combination down to TSA. No way, no how. That is a violation of federal regs. From this day forward I will carry the pertinent regs with me when travelling and I suggest that you do the same.
From the FAA:
http://www2.faa.gov/avr/AFS/FARS/far-108.txt
or
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=14&PART=108&SECTION=11&YEAR=2001&TYPE=TEXT
This is the Code or Federal Regulations (CFR) Title 14, Chapter I,
Sec. 108.11 Carriage of weapons.
(d) No certificate holder may knowingly permit any person to transport, nor
may any person transport or tender for transport, any unloaded firearm in
checked baggage aboard an airplane unless--
(1) The passenger declares to the certificate holder, either orally or in
writing before checking the baggage, that any firearm carried in the baggage
is unloaded;
(2) The firearm is carried in a container the certificate holder considers
appropriate for air transportation;
(3) When the firearm is other than a shotgun, rifle, or other firearm
normally fired from the shoulder position, the baggage in which it is carried
is locked, and only the passenger checking the baggage retains the key or
combination; and
(4) The baggage containing the firearm is carried in an area, other than
the flightcrew compartment, that is inaccessible to passengers.
Note: The 'certificate holder' is the airline.
Note: 108.11, (d), (3) specifies only for handguns does this apply, but as we will see according to the actual TSA regs it applies to all firearms.
And for the regulations that apply to the TSA folks (which they did not know and you would think that they would) It appears that 14 CFR 108 has been recoded in 49 CFR as follows:
This is the reg that applies to the individual travelling:
CFR Title 49, Subtitle B, Chapter 12, Part 1540, Section 1540.111
or more commonly referred to as 49CFR1540.111
http://squid.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=1540&SECTION=111&TYPE=TEXT
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
CHAPTER XII--TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PART 1540--CIVIL AVIATION SECURITY: GENERAL RULES--Table of Contents
Subpart B--Responsibilities of Passengers and Other Individuals and Persons
Sec. 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.
(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for
transport in checked baggage:
(1) Any loaded firearm(s).
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless--
(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally
or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a
firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is unloaded;
(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and
(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the
passenger retains the key or combination.
This is the reg that applies to the screening of the baggage for the TSA to follow:
49 CFR 1544.203
http://squid.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=1544&SECTION=203&TYPE=TEXT
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
CHAPTER XII--TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PART 1544--AIRCRAFT OPERATOR SECURITY: AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS--Table of Contents
Subpart C--Operations
Sec. 1544.203 Acceptance and screening of checked baggage.
(f) Firearms in checked baggage. No aircraft operator may knowingly
permit any person to transport in checked baggage:
(1) Any loaded firearm(s).
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless--
(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally
or in writing before checking the baggage that any firearm carried in
the baggage is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;
(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the
individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination; and
(iv) The checked baggage containing the firearm is carried in an
area that is inaccessible to passengers, and is not carried in the
flightcrew compartment,.
Note: Here the rules are for any firearm, not just handguns as found in the FAA regs under 14 CFR 108.11.
Here is the FAQ on the TSA website:
http://www.tsa.dot.gov/public/faq.jsp or http://129.33.119.130/public/faq.jsp
Art edit: I've been advised that if the above two links don't provide the info, go to http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=09000519800ac232
Can I still transport a firearm in checked baggage? Subject to state and local restrictions on transporting firearms you may still transport a firearm in your checked baggage. However you should first check with your airline or travel agent to see if firearms are permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. Ask about limitations or fees if any that apply. Firearms carried as checked baggage MUST be unloaded packed in a locked hard-sided gun case and declared to the airline at check-in. Only you the passenger may have the key or combination. Ammunition may be packed in the same locked container as the firearm so long as it is not loaded in the firearm. Small-arms ammunition must also be declared to the air carrier and placed in an appropriate container ? securely packed in fiber wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amount of ammunition. In addition small-arms ammunition must also be declared to the air carrier and placed in an appropriate container: "securely packed in fiber wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition." Ammunition may be packed in the same locked container as the firearm so long as it is not loaded in the firearm.
Anyway, here is the info that you will need when transporting firearms on a flight and you don't want TSA to break into your suitcase and you don't want to become a criminal by surrendering your key and/or combination. This will save me future hassles and hopefully it will be of help to you as well. No, I am not a lawyer, but I do know how to read.
From the FAA:
http://www2.faa.gov/avr/AFS/FARS/far-108.txt
or
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=14&PART=108&SECTION=11&YEAR=2001&TYPE=TEXT
This is the Code or Federal Regulations (CFR) Title 14, Chapter I,
Sec. 108.11 Carriage of weapons.
(d) No certificate holder may knowingly permit any person to transport, nor
may any person transport or tender for transport, any unloaded firearm in
checked baggage aboard an airplane unless--
(1) The passenger declares to the certificate holder, either orally or in
writing before checking the baggage, that any firearm carried in the baggage
is unloaded;
(2) The firearm is carried in a container the certificate holder considers
appropriate for air transportation;
(3) When the firearm is other than a shotgun, rifle, or other firearm
normally fired from the shoulder position, the baggage in which it is carried
is locked, and only the passenger checking the baggage retains the key or
combination; and
(4) The baggage containing the firearm is carried in an area, other than
the flightcrew compartment, that is inaccessible to passengers.
Note: The 'certificate holder' is the airline.
Note: 108.11, (d), (3) specifies only for handguns does this apply, but as we will see according to the actual TSA regs it applies to all firearms.
And for the regulations that apply to the TSA folks (which they did not know and you would think that they would) It appears that 14 CFR 108 has been recoded in 49 CFR as follows:
This is the reg that applies to the individual travelling:
CFR Title 49, Subtitle B, Chapter 12, Part 1540, Section 1540.111
or more commonly referred to as 49CFR1540.111
http://squid.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=1540&SECTION=111&TYPE=TEXT
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
CHAPTER XII--TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PART 1540--CIVIL AVIATION SECURITY: GENERAL RULES--Table of Contents
Subpart B--Responsibilities of Passengers and Other Individuals and Persons
Sec. 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.
(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for
transport in checked baggage:
(1) Any loaded firearm(s).
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless--
(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally
or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a
firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is unloaded;
(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and
(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the
passenger retains the key or combination.
This is the reg that applies to the screening of the baggage for the TSA to follow:
49 CFR 1544.203
http://squid.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/get-cfr.cgi?TITLE=49&PART=1544&SECTION=203&TYPE=TEXT
TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION
CHAPTER XII--TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
PART 1544--AIRCRAFT OPERATOR SECURITY: AIR CARRIERS AND COMMERCIAL OPERATORS--Table of Contents
Subpart C--Operations
Sec. 1544.203 Acceptance and screening of checked baggage.
(f) Firearms in checked baggage. No aircraft operator may knowingly
permit any person to transport in checked baggage:
(1) Any loaded firearm(s).
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless--
(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally
or in writing before checking the baggage that any firearm carried in
the baggage is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container;
(iii) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the
individual checking the baggage retains the key or combination; and
(iv) The checked baggage containing the firearm is carried in an
area that is inaccessible to passengers, and is not carried in the
flightcrew compartment,.
Note: Here the rules are for any firearm, not just handguns as found in the FAA regs under 14 CFR 108.11.
Here is the FAQ on the TSA website:
http://www.tsa.dot.gov/public/faq.jsp or http://129.33.119.130/public/faq.jsp
Art edit: I've been advised that if the above two links don't provide the info, go to http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=09000519800ac232
Can I still transport a firearm in checked baggage? Subject to state and local restrictions on transporting firearms you may still transport a firearm in your checked baggage. However you should first check with your airline or travel agent to see if firearms are permitted in checked baggage on the airline you are flying. Ask about limitations or fees if any that apply. Firearms carried as checked baggage MUST be unloaded packed in a locked hard-sided gun case and declared to the airline at check-in. Only you the passenger may have the key or combination. Ammunition may be packed in the same locked container as the firearm so long as it is not loaded in the firearm. Small-arms ammunition must also be declared to the air carrier and placed in an appropriate container ? securely packed in fiber wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amount of ammunition. In addition small-arms ammunition must also be declared to the air carrier and placed in an appropriate container: "securely packed in fiber wood or metal boxes or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition." Ammunition may be packed in the same locked container as the firearm so long as it is not loaded in the firearm.
Anyway, here is the info that you will need when transporting firearms on a flight and you don't want TSA to break into your suitcase and you don't want to become a criminal by surrendering your key and/or combination. This will save me future hassles and hopefully it will be of help to you as well. No, I am not a lawyer, but I do know how to read.
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