FMJ vs JHP for self defense

[Loosedhorse]

I'm not sure that disproves the statement.

It doesn't have to.

"Impossibility" is a very high standard. We may (if we are generous) have a presumption that an expert saying "impossible" is correct. However, I would think that the provided examples (not hard to find) are enough to shift the presumption to "maybe it actually IS possible, even if improbable."

As I said, impossible is an extreme claim; it means it could never happen, under no circumstances, no matter how improbable. Ever. If someone is claiming that, the burden should be on them to prove, not on others to disprove (IMHO).

It's a poorly written statement.

I wonder if the author meant that a projectile that has only enough energy to penetrate one inch of flesh (or gel) does not have enough energy to deform the lead and copper and thereby expand.

That seems the most likely option.

 

[Ben86]

Has anyone ever hunted with FMJ? That will really put it into perspective.

I've seen rabbits run away after being shot through the chest with 9mm fmj.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

One rapid skunk was shot with .38 Super FMJs and the 7th round finally killed it. It was on a 4H camp out where I was but I didn't see it get shot but several people confirmed it.

 

[Pigoutultra]

I don't know of a single handgun cartridge and bullet combination that is capable of killing instantly in one shot on every occasion. I don't know the details specifically, for all I know it could have been dark and skunks are mostly black. One or more of those shots could have missed.

 

[JTQ]

Ben86 wrote,
Has anyone ever hunted with FMJ? That will really put it into perspective.

I believe hollow point rounds are more effective. However, when hunters are using a round marginal for the task at hand (it is generally agreed all handgun rounds are marginal for personal defense), especially when hunting something that can hurt them, they always go for more penetration rather than more expansion. Even if they expect that round may pass right through at some ranges or angles, they want to make sure if they are at a different range or angle they will get enough penetration to hit something that counts.

 

[BeerSleeper]

I've seen rabbits run away after being shot through the chest with 9mm fmj

That's called a miss. Even with horrible shot placement, I have a hard time seeing a rabbit running away after a hit. Even with 22, and a hit with poor shot placement, and they don't go far.

 

[Kachok]

Traditional FMJs have a tendency to create minimal disturbance passing through soft tissue, they just make a cleaner hole, (less blood loss) FMJs that begin to yaw on contact are a completly different story because as they yaw they dramaticly increase their surface area and often fragment making for nasty would tracts, handgun FMJs for the most part don't do this (except fot the 5.7) No 9mm FMJ is going to make as much soft tissue damage passing through a human sized body vs a quality HP bullet, it is not even close, this has been verified though many years of testing, if the millitary had the option of using HPs in their handguns and sub guns I assure you they would just as all US LE agencies do. I think that speaks for itself.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

That's called a miss. Even with horrible shot placement, I have a hard time seeing a rabbit running away after a hit. Even with 22, and a hit with poor shot placement, and they don't go far.

A rabid skunk took 7 rounds of .38 Super FMJ before finally dying.

 

[Ben86]

That's called a miss.

No my friend that was a hit. Complete with left over chest fur and a bit of blood were the bullet exited from the wabbit. The recovered rabbit had a ice pick like wound going from the back to the front of the chest. It ran about 50 yards into the woods and was hard to find.

I have also shot a rabbit with 9mm fmj myself and it was DRT. What this means to me is that if fmj sometimes stops a surprised rabbit quick that's pretty marginal.

 

[Prosser]

I find the .375 H&H with 220 grain bullets will stop a rabid rabbit from charging.
It's only going about 3100 fps.

 

[JRH6856]

I find the .375 H&H with 220 grain bullets will stop a rabid rabbit from charging.
It's only going about 3100 fps.

That's one fast rabbit.
__________________

 

[leadcounsel]

Either, or, both, it's all about shot placement and hitting the vitals folks.

But in an environment where you may need to shoot THROUGH some concealment or light cover to hit your assailant, the FMJ will perform better - think car door, car window, solid piece of furniture, solid door, appliance, etc. or as someone said a very large/fatty person and/or heavy clothing/denim/leather, etc.....

Alernately, JHP is ideal for bare skin due to expansion...

I sometimes alternate FMJ and JHP in a weapon that will cycle both reliably. Seems that if I doubletap, I'm getting the best of both worlds... that's my thinking anyway.

 

[earlthegoat2]

See my sig.

 

[Prosser]

In a snubby revolver, full wadcutters have no down side, or Keith style bullets, since feeding is not an issue. Shouldn't really be with a modern service caliber weapon, either.

 

[NG VI]

Heavy clothing does not make an FMJ bullet a better choice than JHP. There is no amount of clothing a person can wear, unless it's water-filled sacks, that will make a JHP bullet perform in a less desirable way than FMJ.

Heavy clothing inhibits expansion in a JHP, which promotes penetration. There is no reduction in penetration through clothing. The amount of penetration a bullet gets is directly related to the amount of expansion it experiences, so a barrier that prevents expansion will change the amount of penetration a bullet delivers.

 

[918v]

Has anyone ever hunted with FMJ?

Kind of. I once ran across a recently killed jackrabbit. I found a perfect opportunity to test out 45ACP 230gr FMJ vs JHP. I first shot the FMJ just behind the shoulder. The bullet went through the rabbit, causing a slight movement of the animal. I then shot it with a JHP. The rabbit became airborne and flipped over. True story. I really flipped a bunny.

 

[wally]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Where you place the bullet on the target has far more to do with handgun effectiveness than which bullet it happens to be.

Most folks feel better carrying JHP.

 

[Tinman357]

Wow. Thats a lot to read. But, it did confirm my own personal opinion. I carry good JHP's that work in my sidearm. My personal views.

Getting as close as I can to 100% reliabitity.
Be prepared to deal with a jam. Jams happen.

Choose ammo that is accurate in YOUR weapon.
You can't miss fast enough to win a fight.


I personally choose JHP not because they are better, but they might expand as advertised in MY gunfight. If they don't, then I've gotten a FMJ into him and that will probably do the job. Keeping in mind that I do expect the JHP to fail. If it doesn't, well thats good too. Either way I'm going to keep shooting until the threat is stopped.

Hopefully, I've honed my avoidance skills enough that I won't ever find out if they work in a real life or death encounter.

Stay safe folks, Use your head and shoot straight when you shoot. Carry what works for you. Opinions are a great thing, thats one of the reasons I love this place. Just remember, none of us experts, real or self proclaimed, will be there at YOUR gunfight. You're on your own. Test and test again and carry what works for you.

 

[Prosser]

First off:
FMJ is not equal to JHP's if they don't expand. The profile of most JHP's is better, in general, then FMJ, since a plugged JHP is more like a truncated cone then FMJ and that's better.

 

[Pigoutultra]

So there are no fmj truncated cone bullets?

 

[Prosser]

There are, but they are not common, which usually means cheap.

 

[Chief4]

FMJ or HP

IMO---FMJ will usually go thru the body and not do much damage. The JHP will expand and rip flesh,muscle, arteries etc., and 14" is plenty deep enough for ANY human body. But, either one will do damage and cause bleeding and a shot in the pelvic area will take you down.
If you have to shoot:
Double Tap & Double Tap again.